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Thread: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Yes it is. Absolutely ridiculous that the Democrats and Liberals in the US Senate are too full of themselves to look at what their consituents want instead of what those politicians think the citizenry should want.
    Sorry, what is it their constituents want that they are not addressing?

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Boehner can't put a clean Continuing resolution onto the floor because he knows the Cast iron conservatives would be outraged and could potentially try to oust him as speaker of the house.

    if all the democrats voted for a clean continuing resolution to fund the government, all boehner needs is for 17 republicans to vote yes on the bill, and it passes by a simple majority.
    That, of course, is called poor leadership. Government or management by self-preservation is for cowards and light-weights, which Boehner undoubtedly is.

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Sorry, what is it their constituents want that they are not addressing?
    The majority of Americans want the ACA either revised or repealed, yet the Dems refuse to even consider changes to the law.

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The majority of Americans want the ACA either revised or repealed, yet the Dems refuse to even consider changes to the law.
    The polls that count are the elections. The electorate is fickle and polls are easily manipulated. That's part of why we don't have a direct democracy.

    The People gave power to the Democrats in 2008, and there have been two national elections since then. They did not give the GOP enough clout in 2010 or 2012 to undo or even meaningfully change Obamacare, even though that was a major plank they ran on. They couldn't even oust Obama.

    Perhaps another shellacking in 2014 will give the GOP some new ideas. They've been doubling down on the same tripe for far too long.

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Way to rationalize. Since no one is going to starve or become homeless (Ockham promises,) no harm is done.
    Show me historically of the many government shutdowns how many people have starved and/or become homeless. I'll save you the trouble... the answer is zero. Hyperbole for partisan political points on a forum claiming some disaster will occur during a short government shutdown is just plain stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Did the GOP decide how long it's going to last already? Could you share the timeline with us?
    I never claimed to know. Please don't push strawmen - I stated what I stated that no effect will be felt in a short shutdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    If it goes three weeks, Goldman Sachs estimates we'll be about sucking ~1% out of our GDP in the middle of a recovery. <Link>
    Do you always give such deference to the top 1% of the rich scabby bankers or just when it suits your purpose? No bloated children, no dead starving in the streets, no soup lines... anyone even somewhat informed knows better.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The majority of Americans want the ACA either revised or repealed, yet the Dems refuse to even consider changes to the law.
    Why don't you show me polls (or other proof) to support that a majority of Americans want this to be an issue that holds up the CRA (hint: you can not, in fact, the polls would show you the opposite - I believe its 22 v 72 as of this morning)
    Why don't you show me polls that the majority of Americans want the ACA repealed (hint: you can not; and the polls would tell you the opposite is true)
    Why don't you show me polls, specific to your first claim, that the constituents of Democratic legislatures want any change to the ACA? (I have seen no polls to this effect, but I bet it axiomatic that people that elected democrats would tend to support the ACA)

    Even if it was the right battle (and it is not); its the wrong time. The issue at hand is funding the government in the absence of a budget. The ACA was signed into law mor
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-01-13 at 01:42 PM.

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Show me historically of the many government shutdowns how many people have starved and/or become homeless. I'll save you the trouble... the answer is zero. Hyperbole for partisan political points on a forum claiming some disaster will occur during a short government shutdown is just plain stupid.
    My point was that starvation isn't the only from of harm. 800,000 out of work for a single day represents significant harm to the economy. Completely avoidable harm. The admin time it will take to shutdown and restart the government (many thousands of man-hours across many federal departments) ain't coming back. Do you think the international community appreciates us messing with their economies, which are closely tied to our own? These are significant consequences to this shutdown.

    Set aside partisan concerns for a moment, and ask yourself whether you want the U.S. to get better or get worse, and which direction this shutdown moves us in.


    I never claimed to know. Please don't push strawmen - I stated what I stated that no effect will be felt in a short shutdown.
    But you also don't know it will be a short shutdown. They have run from overnight to 21 days. The last one (1995) was the longest. <Link>


    Do you always give such deference to the top 1% of the rich scabby bankers or just when it suits your purpose? No bloated children, no dead starving in the streets, no soup lines... anyone even somewhat informed knows better.
    Did I wander into a different thread? Do you have a source you'd like to share that says this is good for the economy?

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Why don't you show me polls (or other proof) to support that a majority of Americans want this to be an issue that holds up the CRA (hint: you can not, in fact, the polls would show you the opposite - I believe its 22 v 72 as of this morning)
    Why don't you show me polls that the majority of Americans want the ACA repealed (hint: you can not; and the polls would tell you the opposite is true)
    Why don't you show me polls, specific to your first claim, that the constituents of Democratic legislatures want any change to the ACA? (I have seen no polls to this effect, but I bet it axiomatic that people that elected democrats would tend to support the ACA)
    Polls are for those who cannot separate Right from Wrong for themselves, upside. If you need a poll to tell you whether something is good or bad, you've got major problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Even if it was the right battle (and it is not); its the wrong time. The issue at hand is funding the government in the absence of a budget. The ACA was signed into law mor
    It is definitely the right battle and it's more than definitely the right time. The issue at hand is funding a government which has run so far outside its banks as to no longer be recognizable. ANY legislation to give this government even a single penny prior to the earth-shattering reforms necessary to bring it back in line is inappropriate in my mind.

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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    My point was that starvation isn't the only from of harm. 800,000 out of work for a single day represents significant harm to the economy. Completely avoidable harm.
    I don't think it does and here's why I think that. Even people who live paycheck to paycheck have enough to get through a few weeks without work. Now what I just found out was furloughed federal employees CAN collect unemployment benefits.... Furloughed federal workers can collect unemployment benefits - May. 29, 2013

    Given that - the people who are not working seem to be covered. Money is still coming to them in the form of unemployment benefits which they pay into and they now have more time to spend that money since they are not at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    The admin time it will take to shutdown and restart the government (many thousands of man-hours across many federal departments) ain't coming back. Do you think the international community appreciates us messing with their economies, which are closely tied to our own? These are significant consequences to this shutdown.
    That'll put more people to work and probably provide some overtime to restart things. Of course it will come back and it'll do so quickly. I have little to no interest how this looks internationally as this is a domestic dispute. The only time we should be concerned about international commitments is when our printing press stops and we still have to pay back our debts - which is another topic entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Set aside partisan concerns for a moment, and ask yourself whether you want the U.S. to get better or get worse, and which direction this shutdown moves us in.
    The direction has the opportunity for those who represent us in Washington, to understand their way is not the only way. That they, who are exempt and set in a political class need to reflect what the people want and not what they believe the people need. I think any action that has that effect will benefit the country. The U.S. is better off with divided government and always has been.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    But you also don't know it will be a short shutdown. They have run from overnight to 21 days. The last one (1995) was the longest. <Link>
    Unemployment benefits for Federal workers can last up to 18 months I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Did I wander into a different thread? Do you have a source you'd like to share that says this is good for the economy?
    I don't think there's a benefit to the economy - I never stated such a thing. What I did state however is that there is no harm in doing this and pushing the failed meme that some type of irreparable harm is being done to peoples lives is just untrue, and historically unsupported.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #130
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    Re: Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Just admit you would condemn them because you would suddenly see the action as bad form and that your stance is hypocritical. Confession is good for the soul.
    are you going to say that if the proposal to ban ammo were pushed, if would not be detrimental to the democrat party?

    if you wish your party to take a big wrong turn, ...........please proceed

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