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Thread: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

  1. #11
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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Common sense treaty. This is common sense all the lies that have circulated around this to try to stop this makes no sense. We need to ratify this this is common sense for a great cause. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that makes people suspicious of the treaty, and fight ratification. Telling people it needs to happen, and that it's "common sense" is an ideologue's game. Can you even tell us what this treaty contains? Have you even read the Arms Trade Treaty? Instead of regurgitating party lines, try presenting the actual treaty. It's easy, just google Arms Trade Treaty. The UN page is the third link down. There are some links to the PDF file. It's in several languages, the English portion starts at page 21 (which is blank, just scroll down) and let people decide for themselves, instead of telling them what they need to approve of.
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  2. #12
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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Not a national registry of who owns guns in America tho.
    Well, of who buys guns from other countries. Brazil is to sign, will their companies need to register sales? That would provide American gun owners records to foreign governments. If Brazilian gun manufacturers must create registries from all American importers for the UN, I expect their sales to plummet.

    When the Iranian regime signs, I'll worry about the details. For now, no thanks, other countries can have fun and pass gun owner registries around.

    If your making a registry of guns going in and out of the country that does not hamper down freedom at all. Its simply a registry of how many weapons come in and out of your country not who purchased them etc
    How can one prove how many without any kind of record keeping thus registry.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-25-13 at 06:58 PM.

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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I wonder how many right-wingers having a kneejerk reaction to this treaty have actually read the damned thing.
    Have you read it? Here ya go...

    PDF Final United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty New York, 18-28 March 2013

    People should also remember that like all treaties and major laws that these are just general outlines. The actual regulation or "how to" is left up to commities/agencies that are assigned to carry out the objective of those laws/treaties. Much like for example the EPA being able to make the regulation for the things under its charter. And when this treaty uses words like...

    "highest possible common international standards for regulating or improving the regulation of the international trade"
    "shall establish and maintain a national control system, including a national control list"
    "shall provide its national control list to the Secretariat, which shall make it available to other States Parties."


    You can be damn well sure that there will be some kind of registry somewhere.
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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    If your making a registry of guns going in and out of the country that does not hamper down freedom at all. Its simply a registry of how many weapons come in and out of your country not who purchased them etc
    Umm...who said that they do not want to hamper freedom? Hell, it was a UK UN representitive that proposed this treaty in the first place. Now....take a look at UK's gun laws....
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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, of who buys guns from other countries. Brazil is to sign, will their companies need to register sales? That would provide American gun owners records to foreign governments. If Brazilian gun manufacturers must create registries from all American importers for the UN, I expect their sales to plummet.
    Thats not exactly how the treaty is written. Its written that countries that are signatory to it, thankfully we'll never be, must create a method to track and trace all small arms imported into their countries. So the federal government would have to create a gun registry for all imported guns.

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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Thats not exactly how the treaty is written. Its written that countries that are signatory to it, thankfully we'll never be, must create a method to track and trace all small arms imported into their countries. So the federal government would have to create a gun registry for all imported guns.
    If we don't ratify it, we don't create any registries.

    No American wants records kept about them by foreign governments and to be given to the UN, especially regarding "end users". Taurus would cease to exist without US import, I don't see Brazil ratifying it. If Euros do it, I see their companies taking a nose dive as well. Who wants to be on the UN list of "end user gun import/export".
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-25-13 at 10:10 PM.

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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If we don't ratify it, we don't create any registries.

    No American wants records kept about them by foreign governments and to be given to the UN, especially regarding "end users". Taurus would cease to exist without US import, I don't see Brazil ratifying it. If Euros do it, I see their companies taking a nose dive as well. Who wants to be on the UN list of "end user gun import/export".
    I don't see this ever getting ratified. I'd doubt the Democrats could even get a majority vote on this in the Senate right now. It would be economically damaging to most countries that import small arms to the US though, thats a damn good point.

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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I wonder how many right-wingers having a kneejerk reaction to this treaty have actually read the damned thing.
    None. Precisely none. I had this discussion on some right wing new sources that had comments and none of them read it at all. None of them could even cite a single piece of legislation form it that did what they claimed it did.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that makes people suspicious of the treaty, and fight ratification. Telling people it needs to happen, and that it's "common sense" is an ideologue's game. Can you even tell us what this treaty contains? Have you even read the Arms Trade Treaty? Instead of regurgitating party lines, try presenting the actual treaty. It's easy, just google Arms Trade Treaty. The UN page is the third link down. There are some links to the PDF file. It's in several languages, the English portion starts at page 21 (which is blank, just scroll down) and let people decide for themselves, instead of telling them what they need to approve of.
    And where does it scare you?

    I think it's good that countries should be restricted from selling a known warlord tanks and small arms that he has a history of using to massacre civilians with. You may think differently.

    All the treaty does is essentially require exporters to think about who they're selling stuff to and if there is a good chance that the weapons will be used in a crime, such as that African Warlord who slaughters civilians, they cannot sell it them. That is the summary of the entire treaty. It impacts no domestic trade period. And any exports to countries that already do not raise such flags will not be affected. Selling firearms from Belgium to Atlanta where the dealer you're selling them to has no history at all of criminal behavior or selling to criminals himself will not violate the treaty.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: U.S. signs treaty to regulate global arms trading

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You can be damn well sure that there will be some kind of registry somewhere.
    If the "registry" is just a list of known companies/people you cannot sell to due to criminal reasons, that is HARDLY a national gun registry.

    We already have national FFL lists.

    The treaty controls the exportation of weapons to questionable parties. A registry of questionable parties is hardly cause for concern.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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