Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 59

Thread: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

  1. #21
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,425

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    It is not out of the ordinary. SWAT does not charge in like the cavalry. They come in with a prepared plan. Yes, that means that they will hold back in an ongoing incident rather than charging in like rambo and find a proper moment to come in. Yes, that is even if people are being brutally killed while they sit and wait. That is not out of the ordinary at all, and i am not surprised to hear they did that.
    Even while people are being killed??
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #22
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Even while people are being killed??
    Yes, even while people are being killed because more people may get killed if they don't have enough information on what exactly is going on.

    In fact, we don't have enough info right now to even judge this situation. We have no clue why they were told to stand down, but it isn't something that should be of interest to Congress unless there is some credible evidence that it was someone in the actual government, not the chain of command of the SWAT team that gave the order to stand down. Who gave the order and why exactly should be found out before sending this up needlessly to Congress or any other upper agency.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    The darkside of the moon
    Last Seen
    05-24-14 @ 05:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    In view of the fact that SWAT usually does come in like the cavalry, and we expect them to do so and get the messes cleaned up, exactly when might we expect to be told what plans they might have for future problems? For you to state that it's reasonable for them to stand down and watch while people are being slaughtered doesn't even make sense! Has it become "every man for himself, because I was told to stand down?" My God! There are grieving families involved here...what if it was your son or another member of your family? Shades of Benghazi becoming the norm! I hope I misunderstood your post!

    Greetings, tererun.
    You are thinking of the movie view of SWAT teams. The only time a SWAt team would mocve right in on a situation is if they already had a plan to come in. In other words if they already had a planned raid they had worked out for a while. This was not a planned raid. Yes, it is cruel and horrible that people will die because of this, but it is also how they work. It is the tactical part of their nasme to employ tactics and strategy and not charge in like a bunch of squids and hope things go their way. Because of that they need recon, a plan, an idea of how many people they are facing, an idea of how many innocents are there, maps, floor plans, an account of weapons that might be laying around that the bad guys might now have, and tons of other preparation. That is how they work. Yes, that means when someone is itching to charge in without any of that stuff they would be told to stand down until the team is ready to go in.

  4. #24
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,425

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, even while people are being killed because more people may get killed if they don't have enough information on what exactly is going on.
    You don't have any idea what, "stand down", means. Do you?

    In fact, we don't have enough info right now to even judge this situation. We have no clue why they were told to stand down, but it isn't something that should be of interest to Congress unless there is some credible evidence that it was someone in the actual government, not the chain of command of the SWAT team that gave the order to stand down. Who gave the order and why exactly should be found out before sending this up needlessly to Congress or any other upper agency.
    Exactly, which is why there needs to be an investigation to find out why there was an order given to stand down, in the middle of a hot situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #25
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    10-18-13 @ 08:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    6,775

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    In the heat of crisis, I tend to give the in-the-field decision makers the benefit of the doubt. IIRC, there were early reports that a gunman was "down." If that information had been relayed to a SWAT team leader, the "stand down" order might seem to make sense.
    Then how do you explain Benghazi?
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  6. #26
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,425

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    You are thinking of the movie view of SWAT teams. The only time a SWAt team would mocve right in on a situation is if they already had a plan to come in. In other words if they already had a planned raid they had worked out for a while. This was not a planned raid. Yes, it is cruel and horrible that people will die because of this, but it is also how they work. It is the tactical part of their nasme to employ tactics and strategy and not charge in like a bunch of squids and hope things go their way. Because of that they need recon, a plan, an idea of how many people they are facing, an idea of how many innocents are there, maps, floor plans, an account of weapons that might be laying around that the bad guys might now have, and tons of other preparation. That is how they work. Yes, that means when someone is itching to charge in without any of that stuff they would be told to stand down until the team is ready to go in.
    SWAT teams can't operate that way, because of the shortage of time for formulate complex plans. SWAT teams have to have general SOP's in place and have leaders and personell who are able use personal initiative to act flexibly within those SOP's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #27
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You don't have any idea what, "stand down", means. Do you?

    Exactly, which is why there needs to be an investigation to find out why there was an order given to stand down, in the middle of a hot situation.
    An investigation done by those who have that authority right now, who would normally do such an investigation. There is no reason to have Congress or anyone else involved just because.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #28
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,425

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    An investigation done by those who have that authority right now, who would normally do such an investigation. There is no reason to have Congress or anyone else involved just because.
    Ok. Did I say that Congress should necessarily be the investigating body? I don't recall saying exactly that, but if I did, I'll acquiesce.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #29
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok. Did I say that Congress should necessarily be the investigating body? I don't recall saying exactly that, but if I did, I'll acquiesce.
    Congress nor any other arm of our federal government not normally involved in such situations should be involved in this at all, unless, as I said before, there comes some credible information that someone higher in government was involved in the order to standdown that shouldn't have been. It isn't there place.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #30
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,425

    Re: Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Congress nor any other arm of our federal government not normally involved in such situations should be involved in this at all, unless, as I said before, there comes some credible information that someone higher in government was involved in the order to standdown that shouldn't have been. It isn't there place.
    Wow! I'm in agreement and you're still preaching.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •