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Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

It used to be that family helped family. And those freeloaders? They were left to fend for themselves. We've lost family helping family.

We hide our parents assets so that "the state" can take care of them free in old people's homes . . . use unemployment compensation as a paid vacation . . . use food stamps to gamble with . . . give up our kids so that family members can be paid by their state's foster family system . . . the list of abuses in our good-intentioned helping hand programs has become a way of life. The political right is sick of it. The political left thinks we're baby killers.

Eventually, we'll get it. I hope it's soon enough.
The American family is now a subject of ridicule. See post #23 for confirmation. My family still exists and functions in the manner you describe, and so do many, many others. The effort to displace the family with government continues along with the revisionism required to deny that anything better ever existed.
 
Monarchs who don't know their place need slapping down. The King of the Netherlands needs to be reminded that he's the ceremonial Head of State and has no role to play in the political direction of the country. The undermining of the separation of powers is a dangerous game to play. If he continues, the Dutch would be well advised to kick them out and become a republic. That's something that could be on the cards here if the monarchy continues to take the piss out of the Spanish people who are suffering while they continue to embezzle charity funds and take million-Euro holidays shooting endangered species.
 
Well thats obvisouly up to the Dutch. I was only speaking as to his credibility on telling others to get off welfare. Being an american I likewise abhor nobility, no matter what benefit they bring. Individuals should not be worshipped and given special political status simply because they were born.

Well, technically, being on the state pay isn't welfare. I mean, he is producing a service, he is doing a job, for the money he gets. It's not like he just has a wank all day and gets a paycheck for it. There is work to be done.

And I don't abhor nobility as a rule. i just think that they lost the right to rule the moment we, the people, decided we want to elect our own leaders.

And the monarchies that exist now in Europe exist because over the course of history, when push came to shove, they always sided with the people. When it came for them to grant powers and form parliament, they did so. When it came to surrender more powers to the people, they did so. They oversaw discipline in state institutions and did a commendable job acting as heads of state. The fought for their peoples' spirits and their country in times of war and troubles.

So they aren't there as an absurdity of nature. An absurdity of history.They are there because they earned the right to be there, as a monarchy line. Whether each monarch has earned his "wings" as it were, that's a different story. And considering the relatively large number of constitutional monarchies that exist in Europe: the netherlands, belgium, the UK, Andorra (the elected president of France holds office of "king" in Andorra), Spain, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Lichtenstein, all constitutional, all having generations upon generations to discuss... well, you get the picture.

If you want to rail against monarchies, I'll join in railing against the remaining absolute monarchies in the world: Saudi arabia, Brunei, Swaziland and Oman.
 
Well, technically, being on the state pay isn't welfare. I mean, he is producing a service, he is doing a job, for the money he gets. It's not like he just has a wank all day and gets a paycheck for it. There is work to be done.

And I don't abhor nobility as a rule. i just think that they lost the right to rule the moment we, the people, decided we want to elect our own leaders.

And the monarchies that exist now in Europe exist because over the course of history, when push came to shove, they always sided with the people. When it came for them to grant powers and form parliament, they did so. When it came to surrender more powers to the people, they did so. They oversaw discipline in state institutions and did a commendable job acting as heads of state. The fought for their peoples' spirits and their country in times of war and troubles.

So they aren't there as an absurdity of nature. An absurdity of history.They are there because they earned the right to be there, as a monarchy line. Whether each monarch has earned his "wings" as it were, that's a different story. And considering the relatively large number of constitutional monarchies that exist in Europe: the netherlands, belgium, the UK, Andorra (the elected president of France holds office of "king" in Andorra), Spain, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Lichtenstein, all constitutional, all having generations upon generations to discuss... well, you get the picture.

If you want to rail against monarchies, I'll join in railing against the remaining absolute monarchies in the world: Saudi arabia, Brunei, Swaziland and Oman.

Well, the topic isnt monarchys in any case. The point was his family does owe their position to the taxpayer. Once he gets a real job where govt doesnt force people to pay him, then he can tell everyone else to likewise take care of themselves. Even if his sentiment is right. He has to set an example.
 
Dutch fear rise in immigration as EU law changes - FT.com

Government gets tougher with illegal immigrants | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

This will answer the whole problem with immigration. No point in writing a wall of text when they are already written for me.

Every country that has suffered due to the economic crisis has the housing bubble to thank for an increase in that. Not just the USA had a housing bubble, most European countries did too. So that's nothing special.

On the matter of the recession: Dutch economy struggling to pull out of recession - central bank | Reuters
The central bank states that the chance for growth next year is very dependent on the austerity measures to actually work, or else, deeper recession.

So? You were talking about muslims in the Netherlands. Ray410 was talking about illegal immigration when he wrote:

The Dutch have been overwhelmed with illegal immigration, just as in the United States. Dutch Immigration has been from Eastern Europe, ours from Mexico, South America, Cuba and other Hispanic areas as well as now from all parts of Asia.

To which you responded:

That is true. In 2011, according to the census, nearly 5-6% of the population was islamic and people weren't happy because they felt that the experience of immigration from the arabic regions hasn't improved their country one bit.

So no, what you wrote was about legal immigration of muslims and not illegals as Ray401 was talking about.

And sadly the problem with Moroccans is purely one of our own making. In 1969 the Dutch government was of the opinion that we needed immigrants because we were economically highly prosperous and we had a shortage of workers for the low level entry jobs (cleaning, ordinary factory work, etc.) and instead of searching for qualified staff we took in a lot of Berber Moroccans who were often not able to read or write, had no education to speak off and were supposed to leave as soon as they were no longer needed. The Dutch government was of the opinion that they were stop gap employees and would leave in a few years, so they did not want them to integrate or learn proper Dutch. To be honest they did nothing to integrate them in any way shape or form.

What we were left with is a large group of Moroccans which also had their wives come to the Netherlands. Most of them were also not able to read or write and most did not even leave their homes a lot of the time. They had children which went to Dutch schools but as their parents were unable to read or write in Arabic/Moroccan and were even less able to read, write of speak Dutch, these children were always lagging behind at school. Their skills in Dutch speaking and writing were very poorly when they went to school and as nothing was done to upgrade their levels of reading, writing or speaking Dutch, they went to vocational schools rather than more advanced schools and even then, most of them did not graduate.

The problem then became that after living in the Netherlands for 30 years or more, these Moroccans that immigrated in 1969 and shortly after that, were so used to living here and had all their children and friends here that they did not want to leave the Netherlands anymore.

Most of the Moroccans and their children live in the least prosperous areas of Dutch cities and that lead to these young Moroccans to get into trouble with crime and drugs etc. Their parents, which do not know Dutch properly and are almost totally not integrated in the society, are not respected by these young Moroccans who are mostly pretty much fluent in Dutch. The parents (poorly educated) are also rather conservative and they do not know how to teach their children about living in the liberal Dutch society which leads to a large disconnect. At home they have to live according to their parents archaic principles and in our Dutch society they are not at home either.

This will all be solved sooner rather than later. They too are loosing their religion. Having fewer kids. The younger generation are getting better educated and they do know how to read and write Dutch.
 
Monarchs who don't know their place need slapping down. The King of the Netherlands needs to be reminded that he's the ceremonial Head of State and has no role to play in the political direction of the country. The undermining of the separation of powers is a dangerous game to play. If he continues, the Dutch would be well advised to kick them out and become a republic. That's something that could be on the cards here if the monarchy continues to take the piss out of the Spanish people who are suffering while they continue to embezzle charity funds and take million-Euro holidays shooting endangered species.

Do not insult my King, please. He is mostly ceremonial and the speech he made was totally and entirely written by the Dutch government.

So do not say silly things like "undermining the separation of powers" in regard to my King.

The Dutch monarch are in nothing like the Spanish ones. From what I read and hear about the Spanish monarchy, you are quite rightly angry at them, but do not suppose that the same goes for the Dutch monarchy.
 
The American family is now a subject of ridicule. See post #23 for confirmation. My family still exists and functions in the manner you describe, and so do many, many others. The effort to displace the family with government continues along with the revisionism required to deny that anything better ever existed.

Good morning, humbolt. :2wave:

:agree: And I can't help but notice that Michelle's mother lives with her daughter and grandchildren in the White House. I wonder why that is? Maybe she thinks family is important?

IMO, one's family will always be one's family, for better or for worse, and it's personal, and I like it that way--- while government administrations come and go, and you're just a number to them, which is totally impersonal. I don't want government officials, who don't know me, telling me how important a family should be! I already know! And family doesn't usually lie to you, either! If anything, they tend to be brutally honest! :shock:
 
Do not insult my King, please. He is mostly ceremonial and the speech he made was totally and entirely written by the Dutch government.

So do not say silly things like "undermining the separation of powers" in regard to my King.

The Dutch monarch are in nothing like the Spanish ones. From what I read and hear about the Spanish monarchy, you are quite rightly angry at them, but do not suppose that the same goes for the Dutch monarchy.

Then its even more hypocrticial to send a tax payer funded celebrity out to tell the people to get to work. They should set an example by first removing the monarchs safety net.
 
Good morning, humbolt. :2wave:

:agree: And I can't help but notice that Michelle's mother lives with her daughter and grandchildren in the White House. I wonder why that is? Maybe she thinks family is important?

IMO, one's family will always be one's family, for better or for worse, and it's personal, and I like it that way--- while government administrations come and go, and you're just a number to them, which is totally impersonal. I don't want government officials, who don't know me, telling me how important a family should be! I already know! And family doesn't usually lie to you, either! If anything, they tend to be brutally honest! :shock:
I'm with you on that. Hillary's village will never be a satisfactory substitute for family. What we are witnessing is a decades long attack on the family undermining it at every turn, and then those doing the dirty work standing up and crying that the family doesn't work. It's a nasty business done by nasty-assed people intent on power at any expense as long as it's not theirs. So a monarch stands up and tells his public that the government can't provide everything, and the knee jerk reaction from the left is that it's the monarchy that's corrupt and illegitimate. Nice. And typical.
 
Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news




So the dutch will start dropping some of the social nets that are there for people. I think they realized the impossiiblity of their situation and the continuation of social security and other such programs for the future. We need a new paradigm to activate in for such things and I think the dutch are thinking towards the future.

Does the King of the Netherlands have any actual power, or is this like Queen Elizabeth declaring war?
 
Does the King of the Netherlands have any actual power, or is this like Queen Elizabeth declaring war?

he doesn't have much power. no european monarchs have much power really. they're all more or less like the queen of england.
 
Do not insult my King, please. He is mostly ceremonial and the speech he made was totally and entirely written by the Dutch government.

So do not say silly things like "undermining the separation of powers" in regard to my King.

The Dutch monarch are in nothing like the Spanish ones. From what I read and hear about the Spanish monarchy, you are quite rightly angry at them, but do not suppose that the same goes for the Dutch monarchy.

I made no insult. If that was the government's opening of parliament speech, so be it. For some reason I couldn't open the article in the OP. The UK Parliament has The Queen's Speech, an expression of the plans of the government, read by the monarch. It is political, but does not represent any political opinions of the Queen. If that's the same as your king's speech, then I can see there's no interfering going on.

Occasionally, in the UK, Spain (and perhaps the NL?) members of royalty forget themselves and make political statements that they have no business making. Prince Charles and Prince Philip have been known to do this and are often put in their place by elected officials. That is what should happen. Royals should remain outside of politics, they really have no role to play in day-to-day government.

The fact that you took my very mild comments as insults, suggests you might be a little blinded by your love of royalty. That happens here in Spain too, when anything other than sycophancy is seen by some royalists as insults to the monarch, and the judiciary often seems happy to trample on free speech to 'protect the dignity' of the titular figurehead at the 'top' of society. If you see my comments as insults, too bad; you need to get some perspective.
 
I like the article it points out they spend 100 million dollars on the royalty, he seems content with the money being given to him.

We spend a hell of a lot more on OUR royalty. And they're are not that content.
 
Do not insult my King, please. He is mostly ceremonial and the speech he made was totally and entirely written by the Dutch government.

So do not say silly things like "undermining the separation of powers" in regard to my King.

The Dutch monarch are in nothing like the Spanish ones. From what I read and hear about the Spanish monarchy, you are quite rightly angry at them, but do not suppose that the same goes for the Dutch monarchy.

Good morning, Peter King. :2wave:

Undermine your King? :no: Absolutely Not! The majority of people in this Country applaud him for his brave stance, no matter who wrote the speech! :thumbs:
 
Then its even more hypocrticial to send a tax payer funded celebrity out to tell the people to get to work. They should set an example by first removing the monarchs safety net.

He is not a tax payer funded celebrity, he is our head of state, the figure head of our nation. And he is not out to tell people to get to work, he is doing his job by telling the people what the plans for the next parliamentary year is.

And he does not have a safety net, he has a job/function and is paid accordingly.
 
Do not insult my King, please. He is mostly ceremonial and the speech he made was totally and entirely written by the Dutch government.

So do not say silly things like "undermining the separation of powers" in regard to my King.

The Dutch monarch are in nothing like the Spanish ones. From what I read and hear about the Spanish monarchy, you are quite rightly angry at them, but do not suppose that the same goes for the Dutch monarchy.

It gives me here in America hope that at least more than one person in the Netherlands gets it and has enough information to inform it's people of the hard truth going forward. Perhaps one day, the U.S. will have such fortitude and realize the Nancy Pelosi's of the world have been wrong for decades and should not have been given the credibility they had. Let's hope the truth comes out before we destroy ourselves.
 
I made no insult. If that was the government's opening of parliament speech, so be it. For some reason I couldn't open the article in the OP. The UK Parliament has The Queen's Speech, an expression of the plans of the government, read by the monarch. It is political, but does not represent any political opinions of the Queen. If that's the same as your king's speech, then I can see there's no interfering going on.

Occasionally, in the UK, Spain (and perhaps the NL?) members of royalty forget themselves and make political statements that they have no business making. Prince Charles and Prince Philip have been known to do this and are often put in their place by elected officials. That is what should happen. Royals should remain outside of politics, they really have no role to play in day-to-day government.

The fact that you took my very mild comments as insults, suggests you might be a little blinded by your love of royalty. That happens here in Spain too, when anything other than sycophancy is seen by some royalists as insults to the monarch, and the judiciary often seems happy to trample on free speech to 'protect the dignity' of the titular figurehead at the 'top' of society. If you see my comments as insults, too bad; you need to get some perspective.

Yes, he has not input in the message at all. In fact it is exactly the same as in the UK.

In the Netherlands the government is responsible for comments made by the king/queen. All things she say in theory have to be vetted by the government. The Dutch government is also responsible for all actions made by people from the royal house (the small circle of royals who are in direct and immediate line of succession).

The rest of the royals are much more free to do what they want etc.

There have been a few problems, most of them purely in the personal realm of the royal family. Our current king in the past has made some remarks that can be classified as "less smart" but the current generation of royals (and the one before) have rarely lead to problems or issues.

The grandfather of our king (prince Bernhard) has had some real problems. The husband of the queen at that time had accepted 1.1 million from Lockheed Martin to ensure their plane won from the French Mirage plane. A parliamentary investigation came to the conclusion that he had received that money but generally it was known that he did not personally profit from that money but people around him did.

He was forced to step down from several public functions (board member of several companies etc.) and was never allowed to wear his military uniform ever again. He was very sad about that one. He also cheated on the queen and sired other children.

But he also did a lot of good for the country, he fought the Germans (his own people as he was born German), was a good business man, saved the monarchy and was co-founder of the Bilderberg group and last but not least, he helped founding the world wildlife fund and was it's first president from the moment it was formed in 1962 until 1976.

He also was an enemy of the Nazi's. He, as a Dutch citizen and officer, cut off all his nazi supporting family members and when he negotiated with Germans for surrender in 1945 he refused to speak German and conducted the negotiations purely in Dutch.

He was a wing commander in the RAF (he was referred to as wing commander Gibbs). He bomber V1 launching pads, bombed Pisa, attacked german submarines and flew reconnaissance over enemy territory. In 1944 he became Commander of the Dutch armed forces. He was seen by many as a real war hero.

He saved the monarchy, when our queen had fallen into the hands of a faith healer. With the help of the government this faith healer was banished and the monarchy had been saved.

He was a colorful figure who had some problems but overall he was a good man.

I am a great supporter of the royal family so I took your unfounded accusations/generalizations as an insult, if I went over the top, then I apologize.
 
It gives me here in America hope that at least more than one person in the Netherlands gets it and has enough information to inform it's people of the hard truth going forward. Perhaps one day, the U.S. will have such fortitude and realize the Nancy Pelosi's of the world have been wrong for decades and should not have been given the credibility they had. Let's hope the truth comes out before we destroy ourselves.

The really funny thing, is that the government who is making him say this (because as said, his personal opinion might not be anything close to this) is one made up of the liberal freedom party and the dutch social democratic party.

The welfare safety net will never be abandoned by the Dutch, but it has to be modernized and as many people as possible have to be integrated into the workforce. It is good for everyone.
 
He is not a tax payer funded celebrity, he is our head of state, the figure head of our nation. And he is not out to tell people to get to work, he is doing his job by telling the people what the plans for the next parliamentary year is.

And he does not have a safety net, he has a job/function and is paid accordingly.

A figure head IS a tax payer funded celebrity. But again, my point wasnt to tell you how to run your country. Only how the statement made relates to our own situation.
 
Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news




So the dutch will start dropping some of the social nets that are there for people. I think they realized the impossiiblity of their situation and the continuation of social security and other such programs for the future. We need a new paradigm to activate in for such things and I think the dutch are thinking towards the future.

Isnt that ironic... A king who is propped up by the people through social benefits and is basically in a position because of the peoples tax dollars telling the other people to kick rocks... Ironic..
 
Isnt that ironic... A king who is propped up by the people through social benefits and is basically in a position because of the peoples tax dollars telling the other people to kick rocks... Ironic..

1. he is not telling, he is just reading it out aloud. It is the government who is telling.

2. he is paid in Euro´s ;)

3. he is in that position because of his mom being the queen, who´s mother was the queen, her mother was the queen, her father was the king, etc.


He is the king and as a whole they are much more popular than politicians.

In my countries bigger parties there is not one party who's supporters are in majority in favor of a republic. Even the social democrats and the former communist party are in favor of the monarchy. The social democrats have a 76% support of our monarchy and the communists/socialists are 66% in favor of the monarchy.
 
1. he is not telling, he is just reading it out aloud. It is the government who is telling.

2. he is paid in Euro´s ;)

3. he is in that position because of his mom being the queen, who´s mother was the queen, her mother was the queen, her father was the king, etc.


He is the king and as a whole they are much more popular than politicians.

In my countries bigger parties there is not one party who's supporters are in majority in favor of a republic. Even the social democrats and the former communist party are in favor of the monarchy. The social democrats have a 76% support of our monarchy and the communists/socialists are 66% in favor of the monarchy.

I just find it ironic the man getting literally a free ride because he popped out of some womans vagina is cutting peoples welfare.
 
They are doing very well debt-wise. Not even 80% in debt comparison to their GDP. Then again, they are still doing deficit spending and aren't quite AAA rating country. Their debt costs more.

The Netherlands, as in all of Scandinavia, is suffering from mountains of personal debt... probably in part because the government was taking more than half their paycheck.

I'm guessing all over America today that Social Democrat dreamers are crying into their pillows.
 
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I just find it ironic the man getting literally a free ride because he popped out of some womans vagina is cutting peoples welfare.

And I find it ironic that you seem to have missed the entire point.

First of all, he is not getting a free ride. Being a king or a queen, a crown prince or crown princess is anything but a free ride. The man has been preparing himself for his position all his life. He also got a good education, was a soldier (navy), is a pilot and has worked as a member of the IOC and worked very hard for water.

He is very interested in water management and before he was called to become king he was (among other things) an honorary member of the World Commission on Water for the 21st century and patron of the Global Water Partnership. He was appointed as the Chairperson of the United Nations Secretary General's Advisory Board on Water and Sanitation.

As a pilot, in his free time, he has in the past flown (as a volunteer) for the African Medical Research and Education Foundation (AMREF) in Kenya, and in 1991 he spent a month flying for the Kenya Wildlife Service.

So to say he has had a free ride is not quite true.

But secondly, and more important, you state that it is he who is cutting peoples welfare. As said, that is totally untrue. He has about as much responsibility for the content as the secretary who typed it out or the man who made the photo copies. He has not responsibility at all for the content, that is totally down to the Dutch government.
 
And I find it ironic that you seem to have missed the entire point.

First of all, he is not getting a free ride. Being a king or a queen, a crown prince or crown princess is anything but a free ride. The man has been preparing himself for his position all his life. He also got a good education, was a soldier (navy), is a pilot and has worked as a member of the IOC and worked very hard for water.
Sweet sounds like a lot of peoples lives.


He is very interested in water management and before he was called to become king he was (among other things) an honorary member of the World Commission on Water for the 21st century and patron of the Global Water Partnership. He was appointed as the Chairperson of the United Nations Secretary General's Advisory Board on Water and Sanitation.
Cool good for him.


As a pilot, in his free time, he has in the past flown (as a volunteer) for the African Medical Research and Education Foundation (AMREF) in Kenya, and in 1991 he spent a month flying for the Kenya Wildlife Service.
Good for him.

So to say he has had a free ride is not quite true.
Actually it still is. He just chose to do all those things.


But secondly, and more important, you state that it is he who is cutting peoples welfare. As said, that is totally untrue. He has about as much responsibility for the content as the secretary who typed it out or the man who made the photo copies. He has not responsibility at all for the content, that is totally down to the Dutch government.
Fair point.
I still hate all monarchy.
 
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