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Thread: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    That in the US babies and people are taken off ventilator against the will of the parent/family is much worse than euthanasia IMHO.

    Huh?

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Did no one notice the gaping hole in that agreement? The EU has things for example if you are a citizen of a country you can go to any other EU country. The same thing seems to apply with work permits or other such things. Can there not a be a military force patrolling that border? It doesn't have to be Greek maybe the military of another EU country(or countries) since it is in their best interests.
    Why would it be in the best interests of another country? If they can ship off their poor to Greece, how is that bad for any other EU country? In fact, it improves their economy, that's exactly why Mexico tries to push their poor to illegally immigrate to the U.S.
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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Why would it be in the best interests of another country? If they can ship off their poor to Greece, how is that bad for any other EU country? In fact, it improves their economy, that's exactly why Mexico tries to push their poor to illegally immigrate to the U.S.
    Because movement between EU member states is relatively easy. And Greece is currently serving as an entry point for Illegal immigrants to the rest of the EU, especially since Spain and Italy have beefed up security along their Mediterranean costs.

    I think current estimates are that from 75-90% of all illegal immigrants in Europe now pass through Greece

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post

    I think current estimates are that from 75-90% of all illegal immigrants in Europe now pass through Greece
    Source? I don't think you'll be able to provide stats that back that claim.

    There are still thousands of Maghrebi and Sub-Saharan immigrants making the heart-breaking voyage across the Alborán. I was down on the coast last week on the same day a raft of 60 was brought to shore. How would beefed up coastal patrols stop this? You think the Spanish and Italian coastguards are pushing them out into international waters to drown? Or go back to Morocco? No. Those boats and the thousands of Africans are brought ashore, processed through reception centres and then those that come from politically troubled countries (Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Sudan, Chad, Liberia etc.) are released into Spain and Italy. Even if the will to send them back existed, the means would be incapable of dealing with the volume. This is the reality of Europe's immigration problem and we don't even have the ability to build that border wall, even if we had the will. Which we don't. Greece is vulnerable, because of its thousands of miles of coastline, but it's nowhere near taking 75% of migrants.
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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Because movement between EU member states is relatively easy. And Greece is currently serving as an entry point for Illegal immigrants to the rest of the EU, especially since Spain and Italy have beefed up security along their Mediterranean costs.

    I think current estimates are that from 75-90% of all illegal immigrants in Europe now pass through Greece
    But putting the blockage on the other side of Greece and keeping all the illegals there would make more sense than trying to protect Greece. Once the illegals have found their home, if it's difficult to move on, they'll stay there. Granted, Greece is probably about as bankrupt as the countries these people came from in the first place.
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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Source? I don't think you'll be able to provide stats that back that claim.
    <<<Immigrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Syria and Africa have been crossing over the Evros by the thousands. Greece is the gateway to the West, and roughly nine out of every 10 people illegally entering Europe follow this route. On peak days, the figure can reach 500 people.>>>

    Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Enter Europe Through Greece - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    the 75% figure either came from an economist article or the Guardian


    You think the Spanish and Italian coastguards are pushing them out into international waters to drown? Or go back to Morocco? No. Those boats and the thousands of Africans are brought ashore, processed through reception centres and then those that come from politically troubled countries (Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Sudan, Chad, Liberia etc.) are released into Spain and Italy.
    <<<The trend is in sharp contrast to other Mediterranean countries such as Spain and Italy. Spain detained 9,717 illegal immigrants between January and September, less than half those stopped in the same period last year, according to the International Organization for Migration. Italy detained 10,062, down 30 percent. Both countries attribute the declines to stricter border checks and cooperation with migrants' countries of origin like Senegal and Morocco.>>>

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/wo...6077.html?_r=0
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 09-24-13 at 09:23 PM.

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Huh?

    12345
    Sorry, but my grandfather died of euthanasia and it was a peaceful end to a horrible death struggle and for it to be called "offing" themselves in a discussion about my countries finances got me riled up and I responded in the same manner as apdst.

    But it is true though, in Texas hospitals can remove people from ventilators/life support against the wishes of the family.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    But it is true though, in Texas hospitals can remove people from ventilators/life support against the wishes of the family.
    In what type of context are you talking about, and can you offer a citation?

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    In what type of context are you talking about, and can you offer a citation?
    Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining care, even if a patient's family members disagree. A doctor's recommendation must be approved by a hospital's ethics committee, and the family must be given 10 days from written notice of the decision to try and locate another facility for the patient.
    Baby dies after hospital removes breathing tube - Houston Chronicle

    The Texas Advance Directives Act (1999), also known as the Texas Futile Care Law, describes certain provisions that are now Chapter 166 of the Texas Health & Safety Code. Controversy over these provisions mainly centers on Section 166.046, Subsection (e),1 which allows a health care facility to discontinue life-sustaining treatment ten days after giving written notice if the continuation of life-sustaining treatment is considered futile care by the treating medical team.
    Advance Directives Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I read about this law during the Schiavo case discussion. It drew a lot of discussion after president Bush came back to the White House to sign laws into life purely meant to stop the Schaivo case going through.

    People thought it was hypocritical because this futile care law was signed into law by governor Bush, a law which allowed an ethics committee to decide against the wish of patients or their decision makers/parent/family, to forcibly remove them from life support.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    The Texas Advance Directives Act (1999), also known as the Texas Futile Care Law, describes certain provisions that are now Chapter 166 of the Texas Health & Safety Code. Controversy over these provisions mainly centers on Section 166.046, Subsection (e),1 which allows a health care facility to discontinue life-sustaining treatment ten days after giving written notice ***if the continuation of life-sustaining treatment is considered futile care by the treating medical team***.
    What is the issue there? I see no reason to keep someone on life support for 40 years when there is no chance at recovery. Those are resources that could be much better applied to individuals who have a chance of living a full and happy life

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