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Thread: DeLay conviction overturned

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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's scary that people actually believe that.
    What is so "scary" about our system of justice?
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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It's that what appeals are all about?

    If there was an appeals court where a jury panel heard the case again or new 'evidence' was presented I would feel differently about it. And if a convicted democrate law maker had his conviction overturned by a judge GOPpers would be raising hell. And I would be saying the same thing that I am about this one. Partisans suck!

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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If there was an appeals court where a jury panel heard the case again or new 'evidence' was presented I would feel differently about it. And if a convicted democrate law maker had his conviction overturned by a judge GOPpers would be raising hell. And I would be saying the same thing that I am about this one. Partisans suck!
    So partisanship is proven.
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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So partisanship is proven.

    If by that you mean the panel of judges, then no, I'm not saying that. While that could be possible, I don't know because I don't know anything about their politics. But on the forums which I participate, it's all righties that think this is cool and "think" this means Delay is exonerated.

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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    12 Texas citizens who heard the case day after day and witness after witness disagree with your partisan explanation.
    1. First, what do you have to say about the fact that at least 3 (some say 6 )grand jury panels were convened, all apparently perfectly within the time limit allotted, yet with all but one of them the prosecutor felt the results, umm, unsatisfactory shall we put it…he is democrat, lets lay that aside even with these 2 (possibly 5) previous , he may have really really been after the truth after all, doggedly persistent they call it…but what do you surmise about the 2 or 5 before the third or sixth “successful venture”? Add to that that:

    “Mr. DeLay was first accused by Mr. Earle, the chief prosecutor of Travis County, Texas, of conspiring to violate Texas campaign laws. That indictment immediately was challenged because, even if there had been sufficient evidence of wrongdoing — which there emphatically was not — it would have necessitated prosecuting Mr. DeLay for violating a law that had not yet been passed at the time he was alleged to have broken it, a clear violation of the constitutional ban on ex post facto prosecution. Knowing that his indictment was doomed, Mr. Earle scrambled to convene a new grand jury in order to secure additional charges. The second grand jury refused to cooperate and rejected Mr. Earle’s plea for a second indictment, issuing what is called a “no bill,” meaning a formal refusal to indict based on the evidence presented. Under normal Texas procedure, a no-bill document is made public on the day it is issued; Mr. Earle schemed to keep the grand jury’s rejection of his case secret until he could convene yet another grand jury. He found a brand-new one that had just been seated and, with the statute of limitations hanging over his head, wrung out of them indictments on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering after only a few hours of presenting his evidence. The refusal of the second grand jury to indict was kept secret until the third grand jury had done so. Mr. DeLay’s attorneys filed a formal complaint of prosecutorial misconduct, including the use of coercive and misleading measures in the matter of the third grand jury.” DeLay

    2. Now after the scramble Delay was indicted on “money laundering and conspiracy” to commit same, a very desperate maneuver never destined to stand up to final judgment. That is because to be guilty of the charge of money laundering, one must be guilty of producing the money in question through some prior felony offense. Not the case.

    3. And then you have this, the situation in which a jury, the jury of which you speak, rendered a flawed judgement as they were lacking proper knowledge of the law that would most probably lead to an acquittal. This conviction was more out of judicial incompetence [or malfeasance, possibly? Who knows this judge’s politics, it was in the leftist’s People’s Republic of Austin at the trial-court level]. The jury was justifiably confused how Mr. Delay could be convicted of money laundering charge without the underlying crime producing “dirty money” to be laundered. They even sent the judge this question:
    "The jury asked the trial judge that question of law in this way: 'Can it constitute money laundering if the money wasn't procured by illegal means originally,'" Goodwin [one of the appeal judges] wrote. "The proper answer to the question is 'no.' The jury's question about the law was not answered, however; the court simply referred the jury to the court's charge." Courthouse News Service

    So, the judge refused to answer an explicit jury inquiry about the fundamental legal question at stake in the case. I am not saying the judge was partisan…so was it incompetence or malfeasance? Just wondering if you are looking for justice or possibly just being partisan…
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Two republicans rewarding another republican for political services rendered to the party found a way to override the findings of 12 citizens entrusted to dispense justice.
    See above and answer for yourself first, then ask if the citizens had proper knowledge how that may have impacted their verdict.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What is so "scary" about our system of justice?
    Actually, with the appeals justice worked out fine in the acquittal…however there should be some sort of stiff penalty for putting a man doing nothing wrong through the ringer like this. You add that he was required by tradition and rule on our side of the aisle, that if you are in leadership and indicted for a crime, under House Republican rules, you are required to step down. He did so and so this frivolous indictment destroyed a career of service…what price should be exacted for that? It also kept a strong leader from doing the good he might well otherwise have done to assist our side…and for, simply, no real reason except blatant partisanship…which ironically you keep accusing only our side of…I guess when you see it constantly, every day on your side, you just don’t notice it anymore, it is just invisible to you, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If there was an appeals court where a jury panel heard the case again or new 'evidence' was presented I would feel differently about it. And if a convicted democrate law maker had his conviction overturned by a judge GOPpers would be raising hell. And I would be saying the same thing that I am about this one. Partisans suck!
    See above, they did not hear enough in the first case… the judge withheld important information…as bad partisans do, indeed, suck, where do you now place yourself…non partisan or suckie partisan? Just wondering.
    Last edited by Gaugingcatenate; 09-22-13 at 11:38 AM.
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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    DeLay conviction overturned CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs




    Looks like something might have been trumped up given the overturning and the lack of DoJ action.
    You have to love that Texas sense of justice. Don't forget the Branch Davidian Barbecue at Waco.. Youssah, they got it goin' on.

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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You have to love that Texas sense of justice. Don't forget the Branch Davidian Barbecue at Waco.. Youssah, they got it goin' on.
    don't blame Texas law enforcement for the federal governments actions concerning Waco.

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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    can anyone point out how the money he funneled to local races were proceeds from criminal activity?


    surely there must be some factual evidence that back the charges of money laundering ( which requires the proceeds to be from criminal activity)

    if the folks donating this money did not gain this money from criminal activity, then money laundering is not the proper charge to levy.
    if Delay was unaware that this money was indeed money gained from criminal activity.. then the charges are still improper. ( Texas laws requires knowledge of criminal activity)

    I could almost understand charging him based upon the new law ( the law was changed after he committed his act.) in which checks are considered "money".... and investing or financing in something to which furthers criminal activity..... but the ex post facto application of a law is universally unacceptable in our legal system

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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    can anyone point out how the money he funneled to local races were proceeds from criminal activity?


    surely there must be some factual evidence that back the charges of money laundering ( which requires the proceeds to be from criminal activity)

    if the folks donating this money did not gain this money from criminal activity, then money laundering is not the proper charge to levy.
    if Delay was unaware that this money was indeed money gained from criminal activity.. then the charges are still improper. ( Texas laws requires knowledge of criminal activity)

    I could almost understand charging him based upon the new law ( the law was changed after he committed his act.) in which checks are considered "money".... and investing or financing in something to which furthers criminal activity..... but the ex post facto application of a law is universally unacceptable in our legal system
    the criminal nature of the money manifested itself the moment the funds were given over to local, tejas, candidates
    those corporate provided monies could not be used in that manner

    however, the law then ignored the prospect that criminal monies could move by check ; state law provided a loop hole for such illicit money tendered by check ... which loop hole is what allowed the hammer to keep from being a nail
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    Re: DeLay conviction overturned

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the criminal nature of the money manifested itself the moment the funds were given over to local, tejas, candidates
    those corporate provided monies could not be used in that manner

    however, the law then ignored the prospect that criminal monies could move by check ; state law provided a loop hole for such illicit money tendered by check ... which loop hole is what allowed the hammer to keep from being a nail
    well, i could see charging him with improper/illegal campaign contributions... but money laundering doesn't seem to jive correctly, as the money in question is not from criminal activity.
    legal "clean" money going to a person pretty much disqualifies money laundering charges..even if that legal money went on to eventually be "dirty" money.

    if it were true that we could charge folks with money laundering for using legal money to do illegal things with, we'd have a whole lot more folks in prison...
    nah, the whole idea behind money laundering laws is that it assumes illegal money is being laundered into clean money... not the inverse.

    but yeah, the "old law" did allow for checks to be used... checks were not recognized as money under the old law....(ex post facto application of the law is a bad thing, i think we can all agree.)

    I think it was improper to charge him with money laundering... and I pretty much agree that the evidence doesn't support a conviction under that particular statute.


    personally, I think he should have been convicted of illegal campaign contributions... he knew the money was from corporations, and he knew that money shouldn't go to campaigns... that stuff is illegal in Texas and it seem like that charge would have a more solid legal footing.( the check "loophole" still stands in the way, though)

    I'd be happy with some good old country boy justice ... a couple of nice hard punches to the assholes nose sits well with me, for some reason.

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