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Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over[W:67]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

You might want to rethink that. No Republicans voted for it but Democrats passed it. Democrats could have done anything they wanted.

Actually no. When it came out the dems, because they are bought and sold by the healthcare induistry, decided they kept needing more votes than a majority to pass the law. It was probably to avoid a filibuster, but the reality was they needed more than they had for the level they wanted to pass it. In the beginning it was universal single payer healthcare. it was altered to be Romneycare. All that was done for and by republicans in an attempt to be bipartisan and stop what would have resulted in the end of the health insurance industry and the beginning of federal healthcare. This goes to why dems actually started losing faith in Obama. He is clearly a republican and his policies and BS have caused him to go very right and break most of his promises. There is no choice as getting mad at Obama for being a great republican leader is probably not a reason to vote for the republicans.

But i am actually good with what the republicans did. I agree with the idea that this has the potential to cripple and destroy for profit healthcare. I am perfectly fine with making things so damned bad that something has to be done.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Actually no. When it came out the dems, because they are bought and sold by the healthcare induistry, decided they kept needing more votes than a majority to pass the law. It was probably to avoid a filibuster, but the reality was they needed more than they had for the level they wanted to pass it. In the beginning it was universal single payer healthcare. it was altered to be Romneycare. All that was done for and by republicans in an attempt to be bipartisan and stop what would have resulted in the end of the health insurance industry and the beginning of federal healthcare. This goes to why dems actually started losing faith in Obama. He is clearly a republican and his policies and BS have caused him to go very right and break most of his promises. There is no choice as getting mad at Obama for being a great republican leader is probably not a reason to vote for the republicans.

But i am actually good with what the republicans did. I agree with the idea that this has the potential to cripple and destroy for profit healthcare. I am perfectly fine with making things so damned bad that something has to be done.

Sorry, darling...you don't get to rewrite history.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Actually no. When it came out the dems, because they are bought and sold by the healthcare induistry, decided they kept needing more votes than a majority to pass the law. It was probably to avoid a filibuster, but the reality was they needed more than they had for the level they wanted to pass it. In the beginning it was universal single payer healthcare. it was altered to be Romneycare. All that was done for and by republicans in an attempt to be bipartisan and stop what would have resulted in the end of the health insurance industry and the beginning of federal healthcare. This goes to why dems actually started losing faith in Obama. He is clearly a republican and his policies and BS have caused him to go very right and break most of his promises. There is no choice as getting mad at Obama for being a great republican leader is probably not a reason to vote for the republicans.

But i am actually good with what the republicans did. I agree with the idea that this has the potential to cripple and destroy for profit healthcare. I am perfectly fine with making things so damned bad that something has to be done.

So which is it. The Republicans none of whom voted for the bill forced the Democrats into passing a crappy law or the Democrats are owned by the healthcare industry? It can't be both in your opinion.

I'm glad that your good with what the Republicans did. All they did was oppose the bill.

My opinion is that the Democrats did what they wanted and we are stuck with a crap sandwich.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over


If you keep hanging out on political porn sites you will most certainly go intellectually blind.

I hope you all realize the Weekly Standard is taking quotes from Buffett from March 2010 (before the bill was signed) and trying to pass them off as a recent development such that you are led to believe the Buffett suddenly is jumping ship. He is not.

Warren Buffett would scrap health care bill - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com
Money Morning


PolitiFact | Bloggers say Warren Buffett recently turned against Obamacare

For those that took this seriously, 1) you have failed to read the post and 2) helped the OP get off on his fantasy, as you have been suckered in to commenting on a major distortion of fact: Buffett IS NOT saying scrap Obamacare...... Some on check the date... was this from the April 1st edition?
 
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Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Costs can be attacked with Obamacare in place.

I'd love to see tort reform. We need it, and we need it bad.

The FDA approves drugs for market after hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent testing them and jumping through FDA hoops. And then, when the side effects they know are going to happen? Happen? Law firms whose only business is suing drug manufacturers step up to the plate and file class action suits.

Doctors are sued for malpractice because of poor outcomes. Malpractice, by definition, means the doctor did something SO wrong, the patient or his family deserves compensation. Doctors are not perfect. The AMA, in conjunction with our government, should have standards of care in place which, if doctors follow, insulate them from civil suit.

And, actually, because Obamacare provides different levels of deductibles, not ONE of which is a mere $500, people are going to be spending their OWN money for the first $1,000, $1,500, $2,000, etc. of their individual healthcare per year. They'll be more discerning consumers with these higher deductible plans. Less demand? Price will begin to reflect that. Patients are going to look askance a their doctors when they're paying $150 out of their own pockets for doctor visits.

And emergency rooms. There's plenty of room there to attack costs. Emergency rooms have become Medicaid doctors of choice. Sore throat? Let's get junior to the ER. Sliver? ER comin' up. Even Medicaid should have co-pays. And most especially, when ERs are used as primary care physicians. I've had occasion to go to the ER twice in the past five years. In both cases, it was a genuine emergency. Pain at level 12 . . . one an abscess; another a kidney stone. I waited five and three hours while kids were being treated for the flu, sore throats, bad colds, etc. That's just wrong.

On your ER complaint the reality is that doctors cost less, and can certainly react better, but when you do not have insurance you only have the ER. They have to take you. They take you even if you have already screwed them on a bill. A doctor wants payment up front or insurance. If everyone had insurance the Er could shuffle people off to their physician if they showed up without an emergency. make sure they are alive and stable and say go see your doctor. In a system where people can afford coverage the first stop for most everyone would be the doctor and not the ER. We have just encouraged and trained people to go to the ER because they will get something there.

i guess I should also note a 1000 dollar deductible may not sound like much but to a person who lives paycheck to paycheck without any backing that can be really bad. Especially considering there is a decent chance you will be taking some time off due to illness if you are in that position and going to the doctor. But i bet there comes a second insurance plan to cover the deductible eventually. Anything to get some more money.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

There is really only one way to deal with the ER problem: Remove the requirement that they treat anyone who walks in their doors.

My only problem with this is that you are going to have more sicknesses on the street causing a evening bigger issue in the low income areas.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

My only problem with this is that you are going to have more sicknesses on the street causing a evening bigger issue in the low income areas.

Maybe. We also might have more people dying in the street because they didn't get any treatment. On the other hand, we also might get more charity-based free clinics starting up.

But one thing we won't have is that 3-5 hour wait that Maggie had for her real emergency. (and hospital prices could even fall some, too)
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Next time you receive medical care, ask what the cash payment would be, versus the insurance price they will be billing. In most cases it can be roughly half the billed amount.

I've never received a reasonable answer as to why this that is.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Health care/insurance is a hard nut to crack. Typically you'd just put the consumer in charge with protections. But health care is complicated and the terminology is complicated. And while many elitists will create bull**** lingo to keep themselves in the elite and the rabble in their lowly place...medicine is actually really freaking complicated because the human body and chemistry/biology is really insanely freaky complicated.

Add on top of that, that it's relatively unpredictable and may cost nearly nothing, to millions.
Add to that the fact that it's often your entire life at risk.

Just from an academic perspective that's got to be some of the most complicated issues all rolled into one, trying to be solved by a mix of private/public/industry. I don't like what they are doing now, but I also don't envy the challenge.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Next time you receive medical care, ask what the cash payment would be, versus the insurance price they will be billing. In most cases it can be roughly half the billed amount.

I've never received a reasonable answer as to why this that is.

In most cases, they won't tell you.

but, when you get your explanation of medical benefits, check out how much was billed, how much the insurance paid, and what your co pay is, then picture yourself getting a bill for the amount billed the insurance company.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Couldn't agree more. The problem with Obamacare is that it addresses symptoms rather than addressing the problem. The problem seems to be that hospitals come up with arbitrary charge schemes. Not such a bad idea for a business to do that except this is healthcare we're talking about and not buying a sandwich. Why not just come up with a cap system for what hospitals can charge? Maybe also think of ways to increase competition among hospitals. Don't make people buy insurance if they don't need it, can't afford it, or can't navigate it. Just lower costs so a trip to the hospital for both an insured person and a non-insured person is manageable financially?

Obamacare's solution: Well, it's too difficult to address the problems, so we'll just make everyone pay more. Doesn't take thousands of pages to say that.

What would that cap be? How often will this be updated?

Rather I think you should just get rid of the "not for profit" hospital designation. They complain about having to drive up costs because they are giving away free healthcare... yet they don't pay taxes because they are giving away free healthcare? Something has to give here.....
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

I only agree with Warren when he agrees with me--and we quite frankly, we are both all over the map.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

In most cases, they won't tell you.

but, when you get your explanation of medical benefits, check out how much was billed, how much the insurance paid, and what your co pay is, then picture yourself getting a bill for the amount billed the insurance company.

"won't tell you" has not been my experience. Every time I have asked for the cash price for the medical services I have been given, they have made it available to me.

I don't recall ever seeing less than a 30% discount from the "regular" price.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

"won't tell you" has not been my experience. Every time I have asked for the cash price for the medical services I have been given, they have made it available to me.

I don't recall ever seeing less than a 30% discount from the "regular" price.

Which is why they market up the prices for the uninsured by 30% to create the illusion of a discount. Honestly, I'd rather just see them be charged one price. Otherwise it just feels like collusion and price setting.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

My only problem with this is that you are going to have more sicknesses on the street causing a evening bigger issue in the low income areas.

Set up free clinics. No reason you should be going into the ER for a runny nose. period.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Which is why they market up the prices for the uninsured by 30% to create the illusion of a discount. Honestly, I'd rather just see them be charged one price. Otherwise it just feels like collusion and price setting.

Perhaps that is what they are doing, marking up the prices for the uninsured to make them feel like the discount is a good deal. That's not the sense that I get, but perhaps that could be true.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Perhaps that is what they are doing, marking up the prices for the uninsured to make them feel like the discount is a good deal. That's not the sense that I get, but perhaps that could be true.

The prices that they charge the uninsured are absolutely absurd, which is why people negotiate or declare bankruptcy instead of paying them. The prices that they charge insurance companies are more reflective of the true cost of healthcare. Either way, I see this somewhat as price fixing between companies, which is anti-competition. I think most of that can be easily fixed by changing these sweetheart discounts and pushing people towards a high deductible plan (which incentivizes shopping around) instead of one with flat copays.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

The prices that they charge the uninsured are absolutely absurd, which is why people negotiate or declare bankruptcy instead of paying them. The prices that they charge insurance companies are more reflective of the true cost of healthcare. Either way, I see this somewhat as price fixing between companies, which is anti-competition. I think most of that can be easily fixed by changing these sweetheart discounts and pushing people towards a high deductible plan (which incentivizes shopping around) instead of one with flat copays.

That's exactly the direction we need to go, a high deductible universal health insurance that covers everyone.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

The prices that they charge the uninsured are absolutely absurd, which is why people negotiate or declare bankruptcy instead of paying them. The prices that they charge insurance companies are more reflective of the true cost of healthcare. Either way, I see this somewhat as price fixing between companies, which is anti-competition. I think most of that can be easily fixed by changing these sweetheart discounts and pushing people towards a high deductible plan (which incentivizes shopping around) instead of one with flat copays.

There is no question the way healthcare is priced needs to be addressed. Rarely, if ever, does a patient ask for a price list for services. Back when health savings accounts were being promoted, there seemed to be more emphasis on shopping around.

Today, a patient enters a doctors office, and rarely has any idea how much the service they are asking for is going to cost.

One great concern I have is the quality of care that will be available, beyond the cost. With reports indicating the compensation rate to doctors will be severely limited, where are all the doctors going to come from who will be needed to administer care?
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

You might want to rethink that. No Republicans voted for it but Democrats passed it. Democrats could have done anything they wanted.

not true.... If the Dems could have had anything they wanted, we would have universal healthcare. Instead, we had to settle for something designed by the Heritage Foundation.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Couldn't agree more. The problem with Obamacare is that it addresses symptoms rather than addressing the problem. The problem seems to be that hospitals come up with arbitrary charge schemes. Not such a bad idea for a business to do that except this is healthcare we're talking about and not buying a sandwich. Why not just come up with a cap system for what hospitals can charge? Maybe also think of ways to increase competition among hospitals. Don't make people buy insurance if they don't need it, can't afford it, or can't navigate it. Just lower costs so a trip to the hospital for both an insured person and a non-insured person is manageable financially?

Obamacare's solution: Well, it's too difficult to address the problems, so we'll just make everyone pay more. Doesn't take thousands of pages to say that.
Well you heard it right here folks, simple as a sunny day. :roll:
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

That's exactly the direction we need to go, a high deductible universal health insurance that covers everyone.

Universal... I disagree with. I don't like the idea of government mandated salary cuts for healthcare workers. I don't want a doctor who is an employee of the government.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

There is no question the way healthcare is priced needs to be addressed. Rarely, if ever, does a patient ask for a price list for services. Back when health savings accounts were being promoted, there seemed to be more emphasis on shopping around.

Today, a patient enters a doctors office, and rarely has any idea how much the service they are asking for is going to cost.

One great concern I have is the quality of care that will be available, beyond the cost. With reports indicating the compensation rate to doctors will be severely limited, where are all the doctors going to come from who will be needed to administer care?

That is directly related to co pays. Flat co pays = patient has no vested interest in costs.
 
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