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Thread: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over[W:67]

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    I agree. Scrap it. The only people who "like" Obama care are the people on the left who will support, in a hyper-partisan manner, anything that their side puts to paper. Most free thinking liberals I know dislike Obamacare as much as many conservatives (although for some different reasons)

    A big reason I voted for Obama in 2008 was the possibility of UHC and a single payer system. What we got was a bloated piece of crap that continues to serve big business above all.

    I say scrap it and work on medicare for all.
    this.

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Where I can agree with warren's sentiment Obamacare is about the same disaster as the health insurance industry his methods lack. First, the law was a compromise disaster. They tried to make something that would get republican votes and kept on making it harder on themselves to pass the thing because the dems were too weak to pass it on their own and defy their insurance company masters. So they went from fixing the problem of for profit medicine to forcing everyone into it to please their masters and get some republican support. If you want to stop the rising costs of health care you have to recognize that they rise because the health care providers are holding people hostage. Any competition from doctors who did not agree to the corporate mindset was driven out of existence because health insurance companies would not work with them depriving them of business and starving them.

    The other thing warren ignores is there is some small regulation that came along with it that may help. Your health insurance company can no longer deny you because of pre-existing conditions. Seriously, doctors were coming up with terms like pre-cancer or pre-diabetes which meant you were not sick but that you were going to lose your coverage because you were high risk. People did not even make claims and get driopped. They went to their trusted doctor for a check up and got these conditions and no more health insurance. At least the ACA did address a few of these problems, and there is no chance that something will be passed again if Obamacare is trashed. The reps are not even bothering with an alternative because they know it is not necessary, and they do not want to restrict for profit health care.

    There should be universal healthcare like we were promised which gives people medical care for their health. By allowing the government to do it you allow the government to apply cost reductions to the industry to stop the huge markups on hospital service, to eliminate the 15 middlemen all being paid to get in between you and your doctor, and to eliminate bonuses for executives and shareholder dividends from taking away from the care people pay for. Of course if you really love the health insurance companies that much we could always force them into NFP status and eliminate a lot of the waste.

    the ACA is a disaster because it was warped by republicans into the fail monster it is. The dems shot themselves to let it happen, but the republicans were the force behind it's fail because they wanted it to be a disaster. If it is about to destroy the health insurance industry I am pretty good with a few people dying over that. I know, I am horrible, but the people may need a deadly lesson in the problems of for profit health coverage and insurance. Perhaps when they get sick of being ass raped by the healthcare companies they will do something about it.

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Costs can be attacked with Obamacare in place.

    I'd love to see tort reform. We need it, and we need it bad.

    The FDA approves drugs for market after hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent testing them and jumping through FDA hoops. And then, when the side effects they know are going to happen? Happen? Law firms whose only business is suing drug manufacturers step up to the plate and file class action suits.

    Doctors are sued for malpractice because of poor outcomes. Malpractice, by definition, means the doctor did something SO wrong, the patient or his family deserves compensation. Doctors are not perfect. The AMA, in conjunction with our government, should have standards of care in place which, if doctors follow, insulate them from civil suit.

    And, actually, because Obamacare provides different levels of deductibles, not ONE of which is a mere $500, people are going to be spending their OWN money for the first $1,000, $1,500, $2,000, etc. of their individual healthcare per year. They'll be more discerning consumers with these higher deductible plans. Less demand? Price will begin to reflect that. Patients are going to look askance a their doctors when they're paying $150 out of their own pockets for doctor visits.

    And emergency rooms. There's plenty of room there to attack costs. Emergency rooms have become Medicaid doctors of choice. Sore throat? Let's get junior to the ER. Sliver? ER comin' up. Even Medicaid should have co-pays. And most especially, when ERs are used as primary care physicians. I've had occasion to go to the ER twice in the past five years. In both cases, it was a genuine emergency. Pain at level 12 . . . one an abscess; another a kidney stone. I waited five and three hours while kids were being treated for the flu, sore throats, bad colds, etc. That's just wrong.
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Costs can be attacked with Obamacare in place.

    I'd love to see tort reform. We need it, and we need it bad.

    The FDA approves drugs for market after hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent testing them and jumping through FDA hoops. And then, when the side effects they know are going to happen? Happen? Law firms whose only business is suing drug manufacturers step up to the plate and file class action suits.

    Doctors are sued for malpractice because of poor outcomes. Malpractice, by definition, means the doctor did something SO wrong, the patient or his family deserves compensation. Doctors are not perfect. The AMA, in conjunction with our government, should have standards of care in place which, if doctors follow, insulate them from civil suit.

    And, actually, because Obamacare provides different levels of deductibles, not ONE of which is a mere $500, people are going to be spending their OWN money for the first $1,000, $1,500, $2,000, etc. of their individual healthcare per year. They'll be more discerning consumers with these higher deductible plans. Less demand? Price will begin to reflect that. Patients are going to look askance a their doctors when they're paying $150 out of their own pockets for doctor visits.

    And emergency rooms. There's plenty of room there to attack costs. Emergency rooms have become Medicaid doctors of choice. Sore throat? Let's get junior to the ER. Sliver? ER comin' up. Even Medicaid should have co-pays. And most especially, when ERs are used as primary care physicians. I've had occasion to go to the ER twice in the past five years. In both cases, it was a genuine emergency. Pain at level 12 . . . one an abscess; another a kidney stone. I waited five and three hours while kids were being treated for the flu, sore throats, bad colds, etc. That's just wrong.
    There is really only one way to deal with the ER problem: Remove the requirement that they treat anyone who walks in their doors.
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Where I can agree with warren's sentiment Obamacare is about the same disaster as the health insurance industry his methods lack. First, the law was a compromise disaster. They tried to make something that would get republican votes and kept on making it harder on themselves to pass the thing because the dems were too weak to pass it on their own and defy their insurance company masters. So they went from fixing the problem of for profit medicine to forcing everyone into it to please their masters and get some republican support. If you want to stop the rising costs of health care you have to recognize that they rise because the health care providers are holding people hostage. Any competition from doctors who did not agree to the corporate mindset was driven out of existence because health insurance companies would not work with them depriving them of business and starving them.

    The other thing warren ignores is there is some small regulation that came along with it that may help. Your health insurance company can no longer deny you because of pre-existing conditions. Seriously, doctors were coming up with terms like pre-cancer or pre-diabetes which meant you were not sick but that you were going to lose your coverage because you were high risk. People did not even make claims and get driopped. They went to their trusted doctor for a check up and got these conditions and no more health insurance. At least the ACA did address a few of these problems, and there is no chance that something will be passed again if Obamacare is trashed. The reps are not even bothering with an alternative because they know it is not necessary, and they do not want to restrict for profit health care.

    There should be universal healthcare like we were promised which gives people medical care for their health. By allowing the government to do it you allow the government to apply cost reductions to the industry to stop the huge markups on hospital service, to eliminate the 15 middlemen all being paid to get in between you and your doctor, and to eliminate bonuses for executives and shareholder dividends from taking away from the care people pay for. Of course if you really love the health insurance companies that much we could always force them into NFP status and eliminate a lot of the waste.

    the ACA is a disaster because it was warped by republicans into the fail monster it is. The dems shot themselves to let it happen, but the republicans were the force behind it's fail because they wanted it to be a disaster. If it is about to destroy the health insurance industry I am pretty good with a few people dying over that. I know, I am horrible, but the people may need a deadly lesson in the problems of for profit health coverage and insurance. Perhaps when they get sick of being ass raped by the healthcare companies they will do something about it.

    You might want to rethink that. No Republicans voted for it but Democrats passed it. Democrats could have done anything they wanted.

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    You might want to rethink that. No Republicans voted for it but Democrats passed it. Democrats could have done anything they wanted.
    Actually no. When it came out the dems, because they are bought and sold by the healthcare induistry, decided they kept needing more votes than a majority to pass the law. It was probably to avoid a filibuster, but the reality was they needed more than they had for the level they wanted to pass it. In the beginning it was universal single payer healthcare. it was altered to be Romneycare. All that was done for and by republicans in an attempt to be bipartisan and stop what would have resulted in the end of the health insurance industry and the beginning of federal healthcare. This goes to why dems actually started losing faith in Obama. He is clearly a republican and his policies and BS have caused him to go very right and break most of his promises. There is no choice as getting mad at Obama for being a great republican leader is probably not a reason to vote for the republicans.

    But i am actually good with what the republicans did. I agree with the idea that this has the potential to cripple and destroy for profit healthcare. I am perfectly fine with making things so damned bad that something has to be done.

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Actually no. When it came out the dems, because they are bought and sold by the healthcare induistry, decided they kept needing more votes than a majority to pass the law. It was probably to avoid a filibuster, but the reality was they needed more than they had for the level they wanted to pass it. In the beginning it was universal single payer healthcare. it was altered to be Romneycare. All that was done for and by republicans in an attempt to be bipartisan and stop what would have resulted in the end of the health insurance industry and the beginning of federal healthcare. This goes to why dems actually started losing faith in Obama. He is clearly a republican and his policies and BS have caused him to go very right and break most of his promises. There is no choice as getting mad at Obama for being a great republican leader is probably not a reason to vote for the republicans.

    But i am actually good with what the republicans did. I agree with the idea that this has the potential to cripple and destroy for profit healthcare. I am perfectly fine with making things so damned bad that something has to be done.
    Sorry, darling...you don't get to rewrite history.
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Actually no. When it came out the dems, because they are bought and sold by the healthcare induistry, decided they kept needing more votes than a majority to pass the law. It was probably to avoid a filibuster, but the reality was they needed more than they had for the level they wanted to pass it. In the beginning it was universal single payer healthcare. it was altered to be Romneycare. All that was done for and by republicans in an attempt to be bipartisan and stop what would have resulted in the end of the health insurance industry and the beginning of federal healthcare. This goes to why dems actually started losing faith in Obama. He is clearly a republican and his policies and BS have caused him to go very right and break most of his promises. There is no choice as getting mad at Obama for being a great republican leader is probably not a reason to vote for the republicans.

    But i am actually good with what the republicans did. I agree with the idea that this has the potential to cripple and destroy for profit healthcare. I am perfectly fine with making things so damned bad that something has to be done.
    So which is it. The Republicans none of whom voted for the bill forced the Democrats into passing a crappy law or the Democrats are owned by the healthcare industry? It can't be both in your opinion.

    I'm glad that your good with what the Republicans did. All they did was oppose the bill.

    My opinion is that the Democrats did what they wanted and we are stuck with a crap sandwich.

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    If you keep hanging out on political porn sites you will most certainly go intellectually blind.

    I hope you all realize the Weekly Standard is taking quotes from Buffett from March 2010 (before the bill was signed) and trying to pass them off as a recent development such that you are led to believe the Buffett suddenly is jumping ship. He is not.

    Warren Buffett would scrap health care bill - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com
    Money Morning


    PolitiFact | Bloggers say Warren Buffett recently turned against Obamacare

    For those that took this seriously, 1) you have failed to read the post and 2) helped the OP get off on his fantasy, as you have been suckered in to commenting on a major distortion of fact: Buffett IS NOT saying scrap Obamacare...... Some on check the date... was this from the April 1st edition?
    Last edited by upsideguy; 09-18-13 at 02:42 AM.

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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Costs can be attacked with Obamacare in place.

    I'd love to see tort reform. We need it, and we need it bad.

    The FDA approves drugs for market after hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent testing them and jumping through FDA hoops. And then, when the side effects they know are going to happen? Happen? Law firms whose only business is suing drug manufacturers step up to the plate and file class action suits.

    Doctors are sued for malpractice because of poor outcomes. Malpractice, by definition, means the doctor did something SO wrong, the patient or his family deserves compensation. Doctors are not perfect. The AMA, in conjunction with our government, should have standards of care in place which, if doctors follow, insulate them from civil suit.

    And, actually, because Obamacare provides different levels of deductibles, not ONE of which is a mere $500, people are going to be spending their OWN money for the first $1,000, $1,500, $2,000, etc. of their individual healthcare per year. They'll be more discerning consumers with these higher deductible plans. Less demand? Price will begin to reflect that. Patients are going to look askance a their doctors when they're paying $150 out of their own pockets for doctor visits.

    And emergency rooms. There's plenty of room there to attack costs. Emergency rooms have become Medicaid doctors of choice. Sore throat? Let's get junior to the ER. Sliver? ER comin' up. Even Medicaid should have co-pays. And most especially, when ERs are used as primary care physicians. I've had occasion to go to the ER twice in the past five years. In both cases, it was a genuine emergency. Pain at level 12 . . . one an abscess; another a kidney stone. I waited five and three hours while kids were being treated for the flu, sore throats, bad colds, etc. That's just wrong.
    On your ER complaint the reality is that doctors cost less, and can certainly react better, but when you do not have insurance you only have the ER. They have to take you. They take you even if you have already screwed them on a bill. A doctor wants payment up front or insurance. If everyone had insurance the Er could shuffle people off to their physician if they showed up without an emergency. make sure they are alive and stable and say go see your doctor. In a system where people can afford coverage the first stop for most everyone would be the doctor and not the ER. We have just encouraged and trained people to go to the ER because they will get something there.

    i guess I should also note a 1000 dollar deductible may not sound like much but to a person who lives paycheck to paycheck without any backing that can be really bad. Especially considering there is a decent chance you will be taking some time off due to illness if you are in that position and going to the doctor. But i bet there comes a second insurance plan to cover the deductible eventually. Anything to get some more money.

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