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Thread: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over[W:67]

  1. #121
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So this is your brand of "thinking outside the box"?

    Markets that are profit based...for medical care....are immoral. I would venture that greed is 99% of the reason why we spend @ 30% more for health care than the rest of the modern world. Profit based competition is not the answer to lowering health costs. You have had competitive markets within states for over the last 100 years and it has not lead to cost reductions.
    We haven't had a free market for medical care since the70's thanks to increased government control and mandates...especially in respect to insurance companies.

    And what's immoral about free market medical care. Do you think it is immoral to make a profit on food? Housing? Etc?
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  2. #122
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    We haven't had a free market for medical care since the70's thanks to increased government control and mandates...especially in respect to insurance companies.

    And what's immoral about free market medical care. Do you think it is immoral to make a profit on food? Housing? Etc?
    I agree. The only people who complain about profit in health care are the ones that have no clue about how markets work. Competition controls price, promotes efficiency, quality of care and service. Congress stripped competition out of health care when HMO's and PPO's locked in insurance companies profits. There is no proper functioning market in healthcare in this country today and that's why costs are out of control.

    Profit also funds research and development of new procedures, new equipment and proper facilities. Thinking that a proper health care system can function without profit is just ignorant. Systems that run at break even eventually break down.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So this is your brand of "thinking outside the box"?

    Markets that are profit based...for medical care....are immoral. I would venture that greed is 99% of the reason why we spend @ 30% more for health care than the rest of the modern world. Profit based competition is not the answer to lowering health costs. You have had competitive markets within states for over the last 100 years and it has not lead to cost reductions.
    Not for medical care, but for medical insurance.

    But, still, there is nothing immoral about capitalism.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Sounds about right. But you are also ignoring that France pays whatever France wants to pay for their healthcare. They set the cost and amount of services and control who gets what. Doesn't mean they have better services then us, I highly doubt our country could get away with France's level of funding without a huge increase in morbidity.
    We should. If the French can do it, we should be able to as well. Remember, as to quality, the WHO rates France among the best, if not the best, in the world.

    But, we could do better yet if we were to simply have a universal, high deductible, insurance that covered everyone, sort of like the plan that Singapore has, but on a larger scale.

    If the US is exceptional, then we should be able to devise an exceptional health care system instead of one that is just exceptionally expensive.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    We should. If the French can do it, we should be able to as well. Remember, as to quality, the WHO rates France among the best, if not the best, in the world.

    But, we could do better yet if we were to simply have a universal, high deductible, insurance that covered everyone, sort of like the plan that Singapore has, but on a larger scale.

    If the US is exceptional, then we should be able to devise an exceptional health care system instead of one that is just exceptionally expensive.
    Lol. Just a warning, I'm about to smack you down for using the WHO as a credible resource.

    The WHO only looks at 5 things in its study. Those are.
    Health (50%) : disability-adjusted life expectancy Overall or average : 25%
    Distribution or equality : 25%

    Responsiveness (25%) : speed of service, protection of privacy, and quality of amenities Overall or average : 12.5%
    Distribution or equality : 12.5%

    Fair financial contribution : 25%

    Lets look at these one at a time.
    Life expectancy: We have more gun fatalities and automobile accidents. In fact, the number of drunk driving deaths in the US. This has exactly what to do with doctors, and nurses? There goes 50% of the metric right out the window, and I didn't even need to bring up our world leading level of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, or hypercholesteremia.

    Responsiveness: I agree the US should improve in these areas. A lot of this has to do with our broken emergency room system, where anyone with a runny nose without health insurance can walk in and take up time and resources away from actual medical emergencies.

    Fair Financial contribution: Um what? I didn't realize our healthcare system was an equality contest. What does fair in this case even mean? My definition of fair is everyone pays proportional to what they consume in healthcare irregardless of income. In which case I'd say we rank #2 in my fairness rankings, right behind Singapore.
    Point is, who ever is doing the study is going to set what their definition of "fair" is, and their definition is going to determine the rankings. Its a useless metric.

    So anyways, I hope I've shown you that at least 75% of the WHO is completely useless. You want a real comparison of healthcare? Here you go.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...79898986253077

    The Best Medical Schools In The World - Academic Ranking of World Universities Ranking

  6. #126
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Lol. Just a warning, I'm about to smack you down for using the WHO as a credible resource.

    The WHO only looks at 5 things in its study. Those are.
    Health (50%) : disability-adjusted life expectancy Overall or average : 25%
    Distribution or equality : 25%

    Responsiveness (25%) : speed of service, protection of privacy, and quality of amenities Overall or average : 12.5%
    Distribution or equality : 12.5%

    Fair financial contribution : 25%

    Lets look at these one at a time.
    Life expectancy: We have more gun fatalities and automobile accidents. In fact, the number of drunk driving deaths in the US. This has exactly what to do with doctors, and nurses? There goes 50% of the metric right out the window, and I didn't even need to bring up our world leading level of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, or hypercholesteremia.

    Responsiveness: I agree the US should improve in these areas. A lot of this has to do with our broken emergency room system, where anyone with a runny nose without health insurance can walk in and take up time and resources away from actual medical emergencies.

    Fair Financial contribution: Um what? I didn't realize our healthcare system was an equality contest. What does fair in this case even mean? My definition of fair is everyone pays proportional to what they consume in healthcare irregardless of income. In which case I'd say we rank #2 in my fairness rankings, right behind Singapore.
    Point is, who ever is doing the study is going to set what their definition of "fair" is, and their definition is going to determine the rankings. Its a useless metric.

    So anyways, I hope I've shown you that at least 75% of the WHO is completely useless. You want a real comparison of healthcare? Here you go.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...79898986253077

    The Best Medical Schools In The World - Academic Ranking of World Universities Ranking
    I expected someone would bring up WHO and then bash their rankings.
    You forgot to bring up cancer survival rates, but that's OK. One thing at a time.

    Even if you believe that US health care is as good as it is in France, why should be pay more than twice as much as they do? You can bring up obesity and such, but is the average American really twice as unhealthy as the average Frenchman? If that's so, then the country really is swirling down the porcelain disposal machine. Remember, smoking is a big factor in health, and our rates have gone down dramatically since the days of the Malboro man. I'd be willing to bet that there are more smokers in France than in the USA.
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    Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I expected someone would bring up WHO and then bash their rankings.
    You forgot to bring up cancer survival rates, but that's OK. One thing at a time.

    Even if you believe that US health care is as good as it is in France, why should be pay more than twice as much as they do? You can bring up obesity and such, but is the average American really twice as unhealthy as the average Frenchman? If that's so, then the country really is swirling down the porcelain disposal machine. Remember, smoking is a big factor in health, and our rates have gone down dramatically since the days of the Malboro man. I'd be willing to bet that there are more smokers in France than in the USA.
    It is swirling down the porcelain disposal machine. Why is this always news to everyone when I bring it up?

    And actually, you guessed wrong. We have almost a 25% higher cigarette consumption then France per capita. List of countries by cigarette consumption per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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