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Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Good question. You see..."The Advocate" is a pro gay website. The article IN The Advocate is written by a man that is gay, and happens to be the editor in chief of "Out" magazine. Oh...but I suppose it is POSSIBLE he is just filled with self hatred and self loathing and THAT is why he gave it a 'fair' review'...

Your questions are getting silly.

Not really, I am making a point that you try to pin an absolute label on something when it is anything but absolute. There is indeed a self-hatred possibility and some gay people have done that to themselves.

The main point is, I don't know if we will ever know the REAL truth about what happened, but it seems some people on either side will parrot their point as the "truth".
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

And as soon as I saw TNE attribute it to J-mac I corrected him and attributed it to you.
And you of course can point to that...right? Cuz...you know...you DO lie...so without being able to point to it I'm afraid it is just tragically more of the norm for you.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Not really, I am making a point that you try to pin an absolute label on something when it is anything but absolute. There is indeed a self-hatred possibility and some gay people have done that to themselves.

The main point is, I don't know if we will ever know the REAL truth about what happened, but it seems some people on either side will parrot their point as the "truth".

Even The Advocate, which j-mac relies on in the post you just responded, does not say that the author's claims are true.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Here is the quote



They clearly state that it is a hate crime

When you first tried this, I asked a simple question that you totally ignored in favor of your usual tactic of just calling people liars. And that was what kind of hate crime is it when both the perp, and the victim are gay?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

When you first tried this, I asked a simple question that you totally ignored in favor of your usual tactic of just calling people liars. And that was what kind of hate crime is it when both the perp, and the victim are gay?

It is a anti-homosexual bias crime
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Not really, I am making a point that you try to pin an absolute label on something when it is anything but absolute. There is indeed a self-hatred possibility and some gay people have done that to themselves.

The main point is, I don't know if we will ever know the REAL truth about what happened, but it seems some people on either side will parrot their point as the "truth".
"The other side" is not anti-gay individuals in this case...it is in fact an author and investigative journalist that happens to BE gay and his book and research is reviewed by an editor in chief that happens to BE gay, offered on a website that happens to BE pro gay rights. We may not 'know' now the 'truth'...but we certainly have a radically different narrative...correct? One that can either be examined by all or completely dismissed out of hand because it doesnt fit the mythology that they WANT to believe.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

It is a anti-homosexual bias crime

How could that be if the perpetrator of the crime is himself gay?

Nah, I'll stick with what the police said....The crime was about drugs.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

And that was what kind of hate crime is it when both the perp, and the victim are gay?

If the gay person was self-hating and the basis of the crime was because Matt was a homosexual, it would still be a hate crime. Now, me personally I think the idea of hate crimes is idiotic. I think a murder should be a murder regardless of whether it is a hate crime or not. If people don't like the sentences of murder, they should increase it and give discretion to the judge.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

How could that be if the perpetrator of the crime is himself gay?

Nah, I'll stick with what the police said....The crime was about drugs.

Because his actions were motivated by a hatred of homosexuality

The police and the perp all say it was motivated by homophobia. So does the Advocate
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

"The other side" is not anti-gay individuals in this case...it is in fact an author and investigative journalist that happens to BE gay and his book and research is reviewed by an editor in chief that happens to BE gay, offered on a website that happens to BE pro gay rights. We may not 'know' now the 'truth'...but we certainly have a radically different narrative...correct? One that can either be examined by all or completely dismissed out of hand because it doesnt fit the mythology that they WANT to believe.

I didn't claim the "other side". My point still stands. And I agree it's a completely radically different narrative and I didn't dismisss it. I simply said that claiming it as truth is incorrect at this time.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

If the gay person was self-hating and the basis of the crime was because Matt was a homosexual, it would still be a hate crime.

I think that is too broad to apply with any certainty. We know through the interviews, that the killer was on a days long meth binge, and we know that he knew Shepard through drugs, and casual sex, so whether or not the killing was done over some inner struggle of being gay that this perp was going through, or whether he was seeking drugs that Shepard had, we may not know for sure, but my bet would be on the drugs.

Now, me personally I think the idea of hate crimes is idiotic. I think a murder should be a murder regardless of whether it is a hate crime or not. If people don't like the sentences of murder, they should increase it and give discretion to the judge.

Agreed. The "hate crime" designation is only there to place certain groups in protected classes of people. IOW, unequal in the eyes of the law.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Because his actions were motivated by a hatred of homosexuality

The police and the perp all say it was motivated by homophobia. So does the Advocate


You are lying here.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

I didn't claim the "other side". My point still stands. And I agree it's a completely radically different narrative and I didn't dismisss it. I simply said that claiming it as truth is incorrect at this time.
I would agree that it may or may not be THE truth (because unless there is videographic evidence of intent...well...its rather subjective). I think the point behind the book and the position from The Advocate is that there IS a radically different narrative, one that is in opposition to the mythology seized on by pro gay rights groups and turned into a 'cause'. Personally...I think the fact that it can be examined for what it was...whatever it was...is 'progress'.

One of the things that has bothered me about the gay rights 'movement' is how easily and readily they will seize on certain events...but ONLY certain events...events with the "right kind" of perpetrators to advance their cause. The Matthew Shepard murder was a tragedy, regardless of how it played out, and it was turned into a national event and cause. However, in Mississippi we have the first openly gay mayoral candidate come out and suddenly he is murdered just before the election and it is a NATIONAL event...right up until it is revealed the perpetrator is a black man. Dammit! There went all that homophobic, bash the south rhetoric, all in less than a New York minute. New York, BTW, where there have been NUMEROUS gay bashing incidents, all kept nice, tidy, quiet, and local. Why? Because the perps have been largely black, just like in Atlanta........

Like I have said...when your cause is for sale...you have no cause. Had Matthew Shepards murderer been black (straight or gay)...the story would have been buried by noon.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

How many times have FOX or MSNBC for that matter taken the "narrative" and construed it into national policy and laws governing our nation?

What matters isn't the media, it's how many times Democrats or Republicans do it. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Repubs don't.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

What matters isn't the media, it's how many times Democrats or Republicans do it. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Repubs don't.

Then it should be easy for you to provide examples.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Then it should be easy for you to provide examples.

Sure thing. War on Christians and War on Christmas come to mind.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Then it should be easy for you to provide examples.

Iraq. Took a couple of basic facts and twisted them into a justification for war and what our military should do.

Brady Bill

Partial Birth Abortion bans

Flag burning Amendment....
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Sure thing. War on Christians and War on Christmas come to mind.

What laws in relation to those narratives are being enforced on the Federal level?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Iraq. Took a couple of basic facts and twisted them into a justification for war and what our military should do.

What were the basic facts you think were 'twisted'?

Brady Bill

Brady was a narrative from the left that was used to strengthen banning guns.

Partial Birth Abortion bans

Partial Birth abortion is deplorable, you think otherwise?

Flag burning Amendment....

did a new amendment pass? That would be news to me....However, all of these are narratives from the left side distorted out of popular approval/disapproval in order to combat the public wishes. For example, you used Partial Birth Abortion, as a false narrative of the right, but I am sure that you personally don't think that it should be legal, so why would the narrative be false?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

What were the basic facts you think were 'twisted'?

The idea that it was connected to the War on Terror.



Brady was a narrative from the left that was used to strengthen banning guns.

Signed by President Reagan and named after one of his aides who pushed hard for it.



Partial Birth abortion is deplorable, you think otherwise?

No, but I think it's a red herring to distract people from the real issue. It's a feel good issue for both sides. Repubs get to burnish their pro-life cred by trying it and Dems get to play to the pro-choice crowd by trying to stop them. The real issue is abortion, not the method used.



did a new amendment pass? That would be news to me....

They tried. Just because they didn't succeed doesn't mean they weren't trying to turn public policy.

However, all of these are narratives from the left side distorted out of popular approval/disapproval in order to combat the public wishes.

Yes, of course. Everything bad happens because of the left in your world.

For example, you used Partial Birth Abortion, as a false narrative of the right, but I am sure that you personally don't think that it should be legal, so why would the narrative be false?

As I said above, that's a fake issue to begin with.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Ah, so a self admitted 'liberal, progressive, gay man' himself, constructed this elaborate lie that goes at the narrative canonizing Saint Matthew, and he did it all for attention? Are you serious? :roll:

Yeah, it happens. Again, you should never accept anything at face value, even if you like it.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Didn't say that you have to accept anything, and you probably won't...But any rational person can see that the meme of Saint Matthew was a lie, and how it was constructed is a useful bit of information to look at other progressive lies, and myths.

A young man was beat to death, and your largest concern is what you consider a meme? You're even disrespectful of this poor young man?

Look, I'm all for the truth, even if it it goes against me. But let's have some standards for accepting stories and let's not be disrespectful of dead folks. I've said that even for conservatives I've seriously disagreed with.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

The idea that it was connected to the War on Terror.

The whole damned region is connected one way or another to the war on terror! Are you kidding me?

Signed by President Reagan and named after one of his aides who pushed hard for it.

Nope, just wrong....

"It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993, and went into effect on February 28, 1994. The Act was named after James Brady, who was shot by John Hinckley, Jr. during an attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan on March 30, 1981."

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, but I think it's a red herring to distract people from the real issue. It's a feel good issue for both sides. Repubs get to burnish their pro-life cred by trying it and Dems get to play to the pro-choice crowd by trying to stop them. The real issue is abortion, not the method used.

The methods are largely the same, it is the just the age of the child we are talking about in that. I personally don't think killing any child is a good thing.

They tried. Just because they didn't succeed doesn't mean they weren't trying to turn public policy.

So point out what was false about the narrative?

Yes, of course. Everything bad happens because of the left in your world.

I wouldn't say everything, but more than need be yes.

As I said above, that's a fake issue to begin with.

And you are mistaken on that.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

A young man was beat to death, and your largest concern is what you consider a meme? You're even disrespectful of this poor young man?

No, I am not, this is a 15 year old crime, and I think it is deplorable that anyone die like that, and the persons responsible deserve the death penalty for what they did. But it wasn't a "hate crime"... We are discussing the narrative here, and how it was created on a lie. If that is too much for you, to discuss the agenda born out of this horrible crime, then all I can say is too bad.

Look, I'm all for the truth, even if it it goes against me.

Not from what I see.

But let's have some standards for accepting stories and let's not be disrespectful of dead folks.

No one is disrespecting anyone....This is just you trying to shut down discussion that challenges your accepted theory. And I would say a more disrespectful way to treat the memory of Shepard than continuing the lie.

I've said that even for conservatives I've seriously disagreed with.

Oh spare us....laughable.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

The whole damned region is connected one way or another to the war on terror! Are you kidding me?



Nope, just wrong....

"It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993, and went into effect on February 28, 1994. The Act was named after James Brady, who was shot by John Hinckley, Jr. during an attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan on March 30, 1981."

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The methods are largely the same, it is the just the age of the child we are talking about in that. I personally don't think killing any child is a good thing.



So point out what was false about the narrative?



I wouldn't say everything, but more than need be yes.



And you are mistaken on that.

There can be no remaining doubt that leftists tend to be 'uninformed'. (A desperate attempt to be polite!)
 
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