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Thread: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

  1. #71
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This isn't like you, Gardener.

    J-Mac never told you not to post, he just said that if you didn't like it then you shouldn't join the thread. That seems reasonable enough.
    When the little socialist type leftists do the same thing it annoys me every bit as much, Grant.

    Why people cannot discuss an issue without the constant pot shots against "liberals" is beyond me. Sure, I realize the notion of being a conservative is sold as identity by the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys of the world, but it's really not as if there are these two monolithic groups no matter how a person might want to simplify the world down to that level.

    I happen to hold views that are liberal on some issues and more conservative on others. It is this game so many hacks play where they try to force everything into some grand bad liberal/good conservative schism (or the other way around) that reveals nothing but doggedness and conformity. Life is a whole lot more complicated than a cowboy movie despite the way various posters try to make it.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    When the little socialist type leftists do the same thing it annoys me every bit as much, Grant.

    Why people cannot discuss an issue without the constant pot shots against "liberals" is beyond me. Sure, I realize the notion of being a conservative is sold as identity by the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys of the world, but it's really not as if there are these two monolithic groups no matter how a person might want to simplify the world down to that level.

    I happen to hold views that are liberal on some issues and more conservative on others. It is this game so many hacks play where they try to force everything into some grand bad liberal/good conservative schism (or the other way around) that reveals nothing but doggedness and conformity. Life is a whole lot more complicated than a cowboy movie despite the way various posters try to make it.
    I agree, Gardener, but on these debate boards we have to make our points quickly or people lose interest, which is why controversy is sometimes necessary initially to get others involved in order to eviscerate them with facts later. Very Machiavellian.

    We really don't have time to enter into all the nuances of foreign policies, economic issues, etc. It's all sound bites here, in a way, and we have to play hard and fast in order to keep the ball moving or people lose interest. That's just the way it is and eventually everyone understands that that's the way the game is played.

    We all read between the lines, I suppose, and I see you as a good and thoughtful man with a sense of humor-and see the same in J-Mac. That's the only reason I commented.

  3. #73
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, it would seem that a liberal journalist, Stephen Jimenez is coming out with this, and the liberal machine is not happy with him....It brings up a serious look into how progressive liberals construct 'narratives' though, and how to understand how they are rarely based in truth.

    Thoughts?
    This was already done. Jimenez produced a 20/20 with the same allegations in 2004.

    20/20 does not put forward a single piece of incontrovertible evidence to back its assertion that drugs were the central cause of Matthew Shepard's murder. Its case is based on conjecture, sensational repetition of unsubstantiated claims, and sources whose credibility is highly dubious at best.

    The show relies on interviews with sources seriously lacking in credibility, including but not limited to: Doc O'Connor, Kristen Price, Elaine Baker and Aaron McKinney -- all of whom offer stories that are contradicted by others and/or by the public record. In Price's case, her newly invented story suggests she may have committed perjury as well. It is doubtful that any credible news organization would use such sources as the foundation of a story.

    20/20 ignores critical facts to advance its claim that anti-gay bias played no role in Shepard's murder. The show fails to examine McKinney's confession to sheriffs' investigators, which was one of the key sources of information about the anti-gay bias element in the case. 20/20 also fails to acknowledge that the drug angle it presents as news received wide coverage in 1999 as part of McKinney's defense strategy and as part of a "Harper's" magazine story that explored many of the exact same themes.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't think you got enough cliche in there.
    Well you had more than enough right wing whine and CONvoluted stinkin' thinkin' in yours...

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Well you had more than enough right wing whine and CONvoluted stinkin' thinkin' in yours...
    That was pretty good, notquiteright, but it needs more cowbell.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, it would seem that a liberal journalist, Stephen Jimenez is coming out with this, and the liberal machine is not happy with him....It brings up a serious look into how progressive liberals construct 'narratives' though, and how to understand how they are rarely based in truth.

    Thoughts?
    I think it's fair to say that it happens on both sides. That is why we should all seek out as objective a source for our information as possible.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  7. #77
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Have We Got Matthew Shepard All Wrong? | Advocate.com

    Might be helpful to see a pro gay advocacy groups review of the book and situation. Heres the funny part...in the quest for normalization, wouldnt it be interesting to see that just like heterosexuals, homosexuals can get beaten and killed by their partners and acquaintances over drugs.

  8. #78
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    This was already done. Jimenez produced a 20/20 with the same allegations in 2004.
    Link please.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I think it's fair to say that it happens on both sides. That is why we should all seek out as objective a source for our information as possible.
    I'll agree that we need to seek out as many reports from different perspectives to get to the truth, however, you seem to cast doubt on whether or not you believe that in the bolder opening of this post....When you say "it's fair to say that it happens on both sides" that isn't all together true now is it? Although the right may as of late, be using more of the progressive playbook of advancing agenda, it is a recent phenomena. I'll give it to liberal progressives, in that no one weaves a tale to fit what they want to advance better than they do. But, the meme that "they do it too" really is just a dodge meant to detract from what they do, and how or why they do it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I'll agree that we need to seek out as many reports from different perspectives to get to the truth, however, you seem to cast doubt on whether or not you believe that in the bolder opening of this post....When you say "it's fair to say that it happens on both sides" that isn't all together true now is it? Although the right may as of late, be using more of the progressive playbook of advancing agenda, it is a recent phenomena. I'll give it to liberal progressives, in that no one weaves a tale to fit what they want to advance better than they do. But, the meme that "they do it too" really is just a dodge meant to detract from what they do, and how or why they do it.
    I'm not dodging it. Not sure why you even say that. Just commenting that it is rampant in MSM regardless of party.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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