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Thread: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Can you explain the "gay panic" defense used in court?
    I am not saying this book is true, but that is pretty easy to explain. Let us say it is true. Shephard was brutally murdered to send a message due to drug violence. Not out of the ordinary when dealing with drug crimes, and people who may have been taking meth. The two guys were caught. Their lawyer realized they were guilty and about to go to jail, and it was public knowledge this kid was gay. Way back then the massive prejudice against gays opened the door for the use of gay panic as a way for the lawyer to excuse the crime or to mitigate the punishment. It is the same thing as saying a black guy came up to me and I was afraid so I shot. It plays on public prejudices and fears and it was probably their best hope considering they were guilty, and may have influenced a jury. it seems even the book doesn't claim they were innocent, just that the reason was wrong. Unless i missed something in the articles.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    There is a truth that whether or not this case was a lie, the fundamentalist religious forces of the christian right have made systematic efforts to harm the gay community out of spite and malice. One case of discrimination being wrong does not make the rest of them wrong. If the whole idea that this was a anti-gay attack is wrong, the people behind bars still seemed to have killed the kid. So i am not terribly bothered by them being in jail over some drug violence which could have been avoided if we did not have crazy drug laws fueling violence. There is one thing for sure, the people whining about a false narrative will now seize upon this opportunity to make another false narrative of their own that gay rights issues are invalid because of this. Two wrong do make a right wing right.

    If this book does happen to be correct which seems based on anonymous reporting and accounts that might be manufactured by people who see the murderers as heroes, then it is just a reason to seek out the truth rather than simply trying to manufacture something to promote your goals. The truth is out there about anti-gay violence, the destruction of gay people's lives through prejudicial policies on hiring and living, and the spiteful denial of happiness and benefits to gay couples through banning of gay marriage. If they made stuff up they did not have to do that as there are many instances of these things going on. It really makes no difference about the greater issue if this is true or not, but the republicans are about to have a field day with this and use it to go up against the rising acceptance of gays. I am hoping it is a bit to little and a bit too late for all of that. When the wave of right wing propaganda hits it may backfire on them and show more people the sort of petty and hateful people they are. People are not accepting gays because of matthew shephard. They are accepting them because they have met them and are recognizing most of them are good people just trying to live their lives and be happy. The right wing had better be careful on how they handle this because the righteous heavy handed bible thumping methods they love to employ may only hurt them.
    : There is so much fail in this one post, I don't know even where to start.....Aw forget it.
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    : There is so much fail in this one post, I don't know even where to start.....Aw forget it.
    In other words you didn't like it but couldn't come up with a reason it was wrong. Thanks for letting me know, but i pretty much had that figured out.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    In other words you didn't like it but couldn't come up with a reason it was wrong. Thanks for letting me know, but i pretty much had that figured out.
    More like it is so wrong, and knowing how you approach opposition, it is a waste of time to dismantle everything wrong with it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    More like it is so wrong, and knowing how you approach opposition, it is a waste of time to dismantle everything wrong with it.
    So in other words I am right and you still have no actual rebuttal. You can keep on saying it, but we know the truth.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    So in other words I am right and you still have no actual rebuttal. You can keep on saying it, but we know the truth.
    You keep thinking that tererun
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Questionable sources? Why not concern yourself with the facts instead?

    St. Mathew is hardly an exaggeration after all the publicity about him, It certainly is no big deal. You're just being terribly oversensitive/
    I admit I don't like the tone. Like I said, I never have when someone talks smart ass about someone dead.

    As for the source, just because someone says doesn't mean it's true. We don't accept until proven otherwise. We doubt until proven true. What's here isn't proof. Not even decent evidence. We need much more.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Let's say we take what you say as the truth and they did lie.

    So you're saying that ALL gay people knowingly lie and therefore people shouldn't believe ANYTHING a gay person says. Are you really going that route?
    LOL. You don't really think that every gay person supports the gay special rights groups do you?

    Really weak attempt at putting words in my mouth. Try harder next time.

    However, those that support gay special rights groups, I don't believe anything they say. Either the people speaking for such groups or their useful idiots that just lap up anything and everything they say. They already admit they don't mind telling lies so why would any serious person believe them? Are you really going to vouch for the integrity of self admitted liars?
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    So in other words I am right and you still have no actual rebuttal. You can keep on saying it, but we know the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You keep thinking that tererun
    Hmm, who to believe? Based on past records on gay topics, I'm probably going with the one who perhaps didn't agree with the murder of Matthew Shepard. Tere wins.
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Hmm, who to believe? Based on past records on gay topics, I'm probably going with the one who perhaps didn't agree with the murder of Matthew Shepard. Tere wins.
    Are you saying that I agree with the murder of Matthew Shepard? Where did I say anything even close? I think you need to retract that bit of vitriolic bull ****!
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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