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Thread: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

  1. #131
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, not totally....This is an interesting development in that case, that makes for good debate on multiple fronts. Plus I think that the push back so obviously demonstrated by posters like you to even call contrary evidence to the narrative, evidence of a lie, is telling.

    I am not trying to say I have a lock on the truth per se, but your constant objection to a term, rather than discuss the evidence I think points far more to an agenda on your side of the argument.
    But you claimed this as "truth", shall I post your comment again where you claim it as truth?

    I'm waiting to see how this turns out personally. However, no matter the outcome it doesn't change anything with the gay rights movement or my support of it. I think gays should have the right to marry and I don't think someone should be fired because they are gay.

    How should my support change if the article is right? Do you think people should just say "Well, they lied about this, so I guess they don't deserve any rights or protection." ?

  2. #132
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I'll repeat what I said to J-mac "I'm not accepting aynthing as fact" in this case as I haven't been invested in it since the gay rights movement is not dependent on this ONE case. I'm not for one side or another IN THIS CASE. I just find it funny that with ONE article all of a sudden people are claiming as "truth" their side and that all gay people should therefore not be trusted.
    No one has said that....That is a strawman argument by definition.
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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    "Anti" gay people? Nah...Im sure they are just as ugly as the intolerant pro gay ****heads. Now...lets talk about people that simply dont believe homosexuality is 'right' and dont think federal laws should be changed to mandate gay marriage laws. Do you classify them as "anti-gay"?
    I claim them as anti-SSM.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    J-mac was claiming that this version is the "truth". So I asked what he was basing it on.
    Well...if he based it on the book and other pro-gay rights groups review of the book then he would be judging based on the position of an author that happens to BE gay, interviewing hundreds of people, the admission of a prosecutor that said it was not about homosexuality but drugs, and on others opinions that have every reason to be biased against the book and yet arent. Now...Im not sure how we can describe that as 'fact' because we werent there, but thats a whole lot of factual evidence. As compared to...

    your turn....

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I claim them as anti-SSM.
    Good...so we arent "anti-gay"? Thats a relief.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Good...so we arent "anti-gay"? Thats a relief.
    Not all people against SSM are anti-gay, but some yes. All Anti-gay people are against SSM, but not all people against SSM are anti-gay. That's just a fact right there.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    But you claimed this as "truth", shall I post your comment again where you claim it as truth?
    Good Lord TNE, post whatever you want. Maybe instead of posting what Jimenez writes about as "truth", you'd be more comfortable with me just calling you a liar, and claiming over and over that you are lying? There are some in here that do that too, but they are un credible, and do more harm to the argument I think don't you?

    I'm waiting to see how this turns out personally. However, no matter the outcome it doesn't change anything with the gay rights movement or my support of it. I think gays should have the right to marry and I don't think someone should be fired because they are gay.
    Good, then we have some agreement on some part of this....Can't you see how if this narrative was built on a lie it would damage the movement?

    How should my support change if the article is right? Do you think I should just say "Well, they lied about this, so I guess they don't deserve any rights or protection." ?
    Is that the only way you can see to approaching the matter? False dichotomy? Either or? and Strawman arguments? That sure is a lot of fallacy to approach things with you got going on there.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Not all people against SSM are anti-gay, but some yes. All Anti-gay people are against SSM, but not all people against SSM are anti-gay. That's just a fact right there.
    ike I said...thats a relief. So...back to the intolerant types...would you say there are as a percentage more gays intolerant of antigay AND antiSSM types than there are as a percentage anti-gay types? And just what IS an 'anti-gay' type? As in...someone that doesnt agree with it but adopts the live, love and be happy mentality or someone that would stone all gays or somewhere in between?

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Can't you see how if this narrative was built on a lie it would damage the movement?
    Yet again, how would it damage it? Should people be against gays getting married or wanting protection from being fired if this article is correct? I don't see how it would change that.

    The big picture is what I'm looking at and this article does not change that. The only thing it would change is this case.

    Is that the only way you can see to approaching the matter? False dichotomy? Either or? and Strawman arguments? That sure is a lot of fallacy to approach things with you got going on there.
    Well how are people supposed to respond to this? Do you think it is going to change people's minds on gay rights? Don't see that happening.

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    Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ike I said...thats a relief. So...back to the intolerant types...would you say there are as a percentage more gays intolerant of antigay AND antiSSM types than there are as a percentage anti-gay types? And just what IS an 'anti-gay' type? As in...someone that doesnt agree with it but adopts the live, love and be happy mentality or someone that would stone all gays or somewhere in between?
    Anything you or I say on the matter will be subjective, so not sure why you are asking such a question. I can give you my experience with the matter and I have seen more intolerance from the anti-gay crowd, but that is anecedal evidence so it's not going to sway you one way or another.

    Anti-gay people (to me) are people that I consider that loathe homosexuals. Almost borderlining with "Tigger" mentality. That's why when speaking on SSM I typically label people for what they are anti-SSM if they are against it and not anti-gay.

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