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Assad tells Obama to stop arming rebels or no deal

I can understand the argument "not our problem, not our business, stay out."

I can't buy the argument "If we help the rebels, we risk the extremists coming in". Assad is a ruthless, brutal dictator who is already supported by Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. Are they considered "the good guys now?"

If not, why do people insist on using that particular argument?

On the rebels side its Al-Qaeda, on the Assad's side is Hezbollah and Hamas and Iran. It seems if you want in you need kick both and empower the middle - the civilians.
 
Had you bothered to follow the link in the piece you would have read this.



No kidding. From NBC, no conservative bastion.

All the NBC quote says is that there are extremist groups in the Syrian opposition. Yes, some FSA forces are aligning themselves with Islamist forces. That doesn't mean all of them are.

If a member of the American military shoots unarmed civilians, does that mean all American military personnel shoot unarmed civilians?
 
To me, that makes the term Free Syrian Army a myth.

Well then buddy, you're lying to yourself. Just because there are extremist elements within the FSA does not mean all of them are extremist. The Al Nusar front killed two FSA officers a few months back. Does that sound like that actions of two closely aligned allies?
 
I can understand the argument "not our problem, not our business, stay out."

I can't buy the argument "If we help the rebels, we risk the extremists coming in". Assad is a ruthless, brutal dictator who is already supported by Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. Are they considered "the good guys now?"

If not, why do people insist on using that particular argument?

I am not saying that Assad and co are the "good guys," however, the jihadists are the main fighting force of the rebels. If we aid the rebels (as we are currently doing) and overthrow Assad, we risk the rebels coming into the new government. The rebels are extremely fractured and thus we should be cautious about aiding them.

And under what category would you place Assad? All this talk about the potential for extremists to gain hold of power, all while an individual with access to large arms and chemical weaponry and robust ties to both Hezbollah and Iran, the two most prominent supporters of terror in the region, is slaughtering his own citizenry and displacing scores of refugees into neighboring allies. The idea that a relatively disjointed opposition could inflict the same amount of instability and damage to the region is quite frankly naive.

To the bolded: I never said that or even remotely implied it.


Both of you are essentially arguing that I am trying to frame Assad and co as "the good guys" when I have done nothing of the sort whatsoever. I have consistently stated that I dislike both Assad and the rebels. I don't think that I appreciated your framing my words this way. Both of you are essentially putting words in my mouth.
 
“When we see that the U.S. genuinely stands for stability in our region, stops threatening us with military intervention and stops supplying terrorists with weapons, then we will consider it possible to finalize all necessary procedures and they will become legitimate and acceptable for Syria," Assad told RIA News.
Who are the terrorists? I need a scorecard.
 
Well then buddy, you're lying to yourself. Just because there are extremist elements within the FSA does not mean all of them are extremist. The Al Nusar front killed two FSA officers a few months back. Does that sound like that actions of two closely aligned allies?

If you only had a little bit of cancer would you have cancer? There are no good guys on either side. They are involved in a bloody civil war. Assad had a secular government. Many of the FSA fighters are Islamist. Neither side provides us with a clear ally after their civil war is over. Learn from history.
 
I have consistently stated that I dislike both Assad and the rebels.

I don't think that I appreciated your framing my words this way. Both of you are essentially putting words in my mouth.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I quoted your words Mr. I

If we help the rebels, we risk the extremists coming in

I think i raised a valid question in relation to your statement. You're worried about extremists coming in. I'm suggesting that Assads close association with Hez, Hamas and Iran would suggest they already are.

Sorry if it upset you, it wasn't my intention.
 
Who are the terrorists? I need a scorecard.

We are.

We keep launching drone attacks in urban areas. Obomba wants to move on to terrorizing Syrians.
 
If you only had a little bit of cancer would you have cancer?

Management of cancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are no good guys on either side.

Such a stupid statement. So Robert Bales means that all American soldiers are evil?

They are involved in a bloody civil war.

No ****, really? Jesus, I had no idea.

Assad had a secular government.

Well, that makes him okay then, right?

Many of the FSA fighters are Islamist.

Some are. Not all, nor the majority. I don't have the actual statistics on hand, you would need to ask Madlib or ecofarm for them.

Neither side provides us with a clear ally after their civil war is over.

Sure. The Secular, moderate elements of the FSA. Simply because you don't want them to exist doesn't make them nonexistent.
 
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I quoted your words Mr. I



I think i raised a valid question in relation to your statement. You're worried about extremists coming in. I'm suggesting that Assads close association with Hez, Hamas and Iran would suggest they already are.

Sorry if it upset you, it wasn't my intention.

I am pretty sure that I stated in this thread that I was referring to extremists within a new government that would replace Assad. We know that extremists are on both sides of this civil war.

EDIT: In regards to Hamas, they are actually against Assad. JPost reported back in June that Hamas "was once an Assad ally but last year endorsed the revolt against him in a shift that deprived the Syrian leader of an important Sunni Muslim supporter in the Arab world." (Hamas: Iran relations suffering from Syria conflict | JPost | Israel News)
 
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Management of cancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Such a stupid statement. So Robert Bales means that all American soldiers are evil?



No ****, really? Jesus, I had no idea.



Well, that makes him okay then, right?



Some are. Not all, nor the majority. I don't have the actual statistics on hand, you would need to ask Madlib or ecofarm for them.



Sure. The Secular, moderate elements of the FSA. Simply because you don't want them to exist doesn't make them nonexistent.

Hyperbole is not an adequate response. I have never claimed that I favor any side in Syria. I would be comfortable with eliminating both sides. I'm more comfortable with letting them eliminating each other without our involvement. You don't want to address our mistakes in the 80's when we assisted Bin Laden in Afghanistan and that mistake is a good analogue to the current Syrian situation. We are better off stepping away.
 
I am pretty sure that I stated in this thread that I was referring to extremists within a new government that would replace Assad. We know that extremists are on both sides of this civil war.

That's Right Mr I.....like the backers of the FSA. The Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists. 2 Right off the top that can be thought of. Which we had that up with the numbers. Just like that bit on Syria already dividing up into 3 regions. Which each area pretty much calling themselves the law in it. Course we had have that up to. Not just the one sided story. ;)

Btw don't forget we now have a thread up for the Rebel/Terrorists and all that do and have done. Especially anytime they open their mouths. So keep dropping all their just desserts in there and Let the Good Light shine upon them. :lol:
 
I have never claimed that I favor any side in Syria.

And I never said you did.

You don't want to address our mistakes in the 80's when we assisted Bin Laden in Afghanistan and that mistake is a good analogue to the current Syrian situation.

What happened with Afghanistan and Osama Bin Laden was a series of un-foreseeable coincidences and circumstances that were far beyond out control.

Syria is not being invaded by communist forces. We know who the bad guys are.
 
And I never said you did.



What happened with Afghanistan and Osama Bin Laden was a series of un-foreseeable coincidences and circumstances that were far beyond out control.

Syria is not being invaded by communist forces. We know who the bad guys are.
They are all bad guys. we shouldn't be helping either side.
 
What he said.
 
That's Right Mr I.....like the backers of the FSA. The Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists. 2 Right off the top that can be thought of. Which we had that up with the numbers. Just like that bit on Syria already dividing up into 3 regions. Which each area pretty much calling themselves the law in it. Course we had have that up to. Not just the one sided story. ;)

Btw don't forget we now have a thread up for the Rebel/Terrorists and all that do and have done. Especially anytime they open their mouths. So keep dropping all their just desserts in there and Let the Good Light shine upon them. :lol:

Can you provide a link for both of the threads?
 
And I never said you did.



What happened with Afghanistan and Osama Bin Laden was a series of un-foreseeable coincidences and circumstances that were far beyond out control.

Syria is not being invaded by communist forces. We know who the bad guys are.

Even though they were defending their country, how was helping Islamic radicals in Afghanistan and the problems that would cause unforeseen? I understand that hindsight is 20/20 but look at what we did. We involved ourselves in an armed struggle at the end of the cold war with one of the cold war combatants. We had no particular national interest in the struggle. We just didn't want Russia to have the upper hand. When the struggle was over we didn't turn Afghanistan into an ally. The Taliban moved in, took over and now we've lost thousands of American lives there. We didn't get involved in the struggle between China and Tibet, why Afghanistan? We gained nothing other than arming the Taliban. Similarly, why Syria? Both sides have chemical weapons. Assad said he would give his up with the Russian solution. The rebels say no to that and your suggestion is that we assist the side which wants to retain possession of their chemical stockpile.

If we don't learn from our mistakes we're bound to repeat them.
 
They are all bad guys. we shouldn't be helping either side.

Jesus people. Repeating a lie does not make it true. Yes, there are bad apples. That doesn't mean all are bad. Just like Robert Bales doesn't make the entire US military evil.
 
They are all bad guys. we shouldn't be helping either side.

Head-in-sand absolutism for the win?


WASHINGTON — Extremist groups make up between 15% and 25% of the rebels fighting Syrian leader Bashar Assad, but moderate forces are growing stronger as a result of support from regional allies, Secretary of State John Kerry told Congress on Wednesday.

"I just don't agree that a majority are al-Qaeda and the bad guys," Kerry said in testimony before the House Foreign Affairs Committee. "That's not true."

Kerry: Syrian rebels have not been hijacked by extremists
 

You did but i'm too lazy and busy to look for them right now and thought other posters might be interested in them, especially considering there are many posts all over the forum on the crisis and they may get missed.
 
Despite Kerry claiming 15% of rebels are terrorists and the UN claiming that Assad leads in massacres 8:1, people still try to spew the disgusting lie that there are no good guys in Syria.
 
Jesus people. Repeating a lie does not make it true. Yes, there are bad apples. That doesn't mean all are bad. Just like Robert Bales doesn't make the entire US military evil.

Well then lets put it this way.....there are no good guys that will be taking power. There are no good guys that make up any power structure or have some sort of backing and base. Wherein they could be construed as a party of Ruling force.

That majority of the FSA are made up of Defectors/Traitors, which happened to be mostly Sunni. The same Sunni that Assad allowed into Command positions with in his Armed Forces. The Sunni in which they systematically kill Shia. Then go after Christians. Who btw way Are standing with Assad and not the Rebels/ Terrorists.

Assad is an Alawite and they are tied to the Shia. The Rebels / Terrorists refuse to negotiate or attend peace talks. Moreover they have come out and stated that No Alawites will be allowed in any shaping of the Future of Syria. They will not be allowed to be in government.

To top that off......Al Nusra which has 30 opposition brigades, Councils and civilian committees. Have stated they do not recognize the FSA nor the STNC. That the FSA and STNC will not be deciding anything about the Future of Syria. Which now they just Gangster the FSA and take what they want.

Then there is the Kurds who are fighting against Al Nusra and AQ as well as the PKK. Which do not put to much faith in Assad nor the Sunni. Which they cannot be backed to take Control of Syria. As for one the Turks say that aint happening. As well as the Sunni Muslims that make up over 60 million inside Syria. Which is the same problem Assad has ran into. Wherein the Sunni backed by the Saud and Qatar have decided they should be handed over another country to run.

While looking to accomplish the complete genocide of the Shia.
 
Despite Kerry claiming 15% of rebels are terrorists and the UN claiming that Assad leads in massacres 8:1, people still try to spew the disgusting lie that there are no good guys in Syria.

That's because Kerry like the French and the Opposition don't know how to count. Yet they still like to admit they don't know who they are dealing with nor who is all behind who.

Of course your narrative concerning the FSA being the good guys. Was already debunked. Which again produce a link to the good guys that can attain power and who they are and what they are standing for in Syria?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...france-falsified-number-dead-chem-attack.html
 
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