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US Police arrest Florida pastor

Why do you dance around my direct questions and throw out a quote from Ben Franklin, who died 223 years ago?
What are your thoughts on the Patriot Act adopted under the Bush Admn.? Did you feel safer after the 9-11 attacks?
If the Florida preacher is really a man of God, why would he publicly draw attention to himself by burning thousands of Qurans? Why is it necessary to disrespect another religion and call your small-minded smugness freedom? Have you read from the Quran?

Why are you against freedom?
 
I not only think, I know that the police arrested innocent law abiding citizens by the truckload during the OWS protests

Only people arrested during OWS protests were those who choose to squat and "occupy" public places for days/weeks/months and police ignored them for as long as possible and then moved in - that's quite a bit different from rounding them up the first minute they did something wrong to thwart their ability to even start to protest.
 
If the Florida preacher is really a man of God, why would he publicly draw attention to himself by burning thousands of Qurans? Why is it necessary to disrespect another religion and call your small-minded smugness freedom? Have you read from the Quran?

It doesn't matter why. It isn't illegal to be an asshole and that's what this Pastor is being. However, he has the right to be an asshole. Burning books is no different than burning flags. BOTH are legal to do. I think he was doing this to garner attention though because he knows about permits. But if he wants to burn books on his property or with a valid permit, the government should not step in to stop it out of fear for what some idiots might do overseas.
 
Why do you dance around my direct questions and throw out a quote from Ben Franklin, who died 223 years ago?
What are your thoughts on the Patriot Act adopted under the Bush Admn.? Did you feel safer after the 9-11 attacks?
If the Florida preacher is really a man of God, why would he publicly draw attention to himself by burning thousands of Qurans? Why is it necessary to disrespect another religion and call your small-minded smugness freedom? Have you read from the Quran?

I thought the quote from Ben Franklin summed up my feelings perfectly, and I have nothing more to add to it.

Read the post by lizzie. That also explains my position. Unlike yourself, I at least made an honest attempt at explaining my position.

Now your turn, why do you think this man should not be allowed to burn a book in an expression of symbolism?
 
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It doesn't really matter what the symbolism was. The issue is one of freedom of speech. Iow, we all have the right to free expression. We just don't have the right to cause physical harm. We don't make exceptions to rights, based on the fact that someone's feelings may be hurt, or because we may be offended.

So I take it you emphatically uphold the rights of the bullies who expressed their freedom of speech against Karen Klein on the school bus. They didn't cause physical harm; only emotional trauma. But you know, words can kill.
 
The legal meaning of incitement and your use thereof are absolutely worlds apart.

It really has nothing to do with the reaction of violent, oversensitive people thousands of miles away, and more to do with actually encouraging a mob towards violent action. By perverting the meaning the way you are doing, you allow the reaction to an act to determine its legality, and hand the right to limit one person's actions to the most violent people who might react.

.

Sometimes you can't always take the moral high ground. Sometimes you have to do things you dont agree with in order to keep the peace. That is life and that is the world we live in.
 
Sometimes you can't always take the moral high ground. Sometimes you have to do things you dont agree with in order to keep the peace. That is life and that is the world we live in.

That doesn't include taking away rights.
 
I thought the quote from Ben Franklin summed up my feelings perfectly, and I have nothing more to add to it.

Read the post by lizzie. That also explains my position. Unlike yourself, I at least made an honest attempt at explaining my position.

Now your turn, why do you think this man should not be allowed to burn a book in an expression of symbolism?

Sadly, you haven't added anything that belongs to you. You can't even answer my questions.
 
So I take it you emphatically uphold the rights of the bullies who expressed their freedom of speech against Karen Klein on the school bus. They didn't cause physical harm; only emotional trauma. But you know, words can kill.

I uphold the rights to freedom of speech. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be.
 
No, you have to limit people driving around with enough kerosene to be a danger to the public, carry your firearms according to the law and register your trailer.

I agree. From what I have read, it seerms like two groups with axes to grind decided to piss on trees instead. If I were going to a protest site, I would: Carry my gun legally, or leave it at home. Carry my fire starter in 5 gallon cans instead of pulling a bomb behind my truck. Make sure my tail lights were functioning. OTOH, if I was going to arrest someone, I would have something in mind, not a charge to be named later.
 
Sometimes you can't always take the moral high ground. Sometimes you have to do things you dont agree with in order to keep the peace. That is life and that is the world we live in.

No we do not. That goes against everything our country stands for, especially when it is a symbolic book burning.
 
Have you read from the Quran?

Considering the views expressed within it towards the infidels along with its instructions for the proper way to decapitate, it constitutes an "incitement to hatred".

Should it be illegal?
 
Sometimes you can't always take the moral high ground. Sometimes you have to do things you dont agree with in order to keep the peace.

Like what?
 
We agree completely except they did name the charges immediately. They just werent picked up by the press to change the character of the story. I think I posted a local link with the charges on the first or second page of this thread.
I agree. From what I have read, it seerms like two groups with axes to grind decided to piss on trees instead. If I were going to a protest site, I would: Carry my gun legally, or leave it at home. Carry my fire starter in 5 gallon cans instead of pulling a bomb behind my truck. Make sure my tail lights were functioning. OTOH, if I was going to arrest someone, I would have something in mind, not a charge to be named later.
 
I uphold the rights to freedom of speech. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be.

I've learned that some people are just terrible debaters. They are demanding answers from you while avoiding any questions you might ask of them. :lol: It's so transparent that they CANNOT answer your questions, so they try to divert attention from that fact.
 
Sometimes you have to do things you dont agree with in order to keep the peace. That is life and that is the world we live in.

No, we do not have to. That's not the country we live it. That's more like Europe.
 
Sometimes you can't always take the moral high ground. Sometimes you have to do things you dont agree with in order to keep the peace. That is life and that is the world we live in.

Ah -- we need to appease the most violent in hopes they will not be violent. How has that ever worked out, eh?


What was it Winston Churchill said about feeding the crocodile in hopes it would eat you last?
 
If you don't understand it, why would you support it? What is your idea of freedom?

I have to say there are lots of things that boggle the mind that other people do, things I'd never consider nor want to be a part of - respecting their right to do it and participate in it is what freedom is all about, at least for me.
 
Ah -- we need to appease the most violent in hopes they will not be violent. How has that ever worked out, eh?


What was it Winston Churchill said about feeding the crocodile in hopes it would eat you last?

Well I don't think Winston Churchill said this, but it's still fitting, You give an inch, they'll take a mile.
 
I've learned that some people are just terrible debaters. They are demanding answers from you while avoiding any questions you might ask of them. :lol: It's so transparent that they CANNOT answer your questions, so they try to divert attention from that fact.

Well, I'm not great at debating, but I do have a grasp of concepts, and the ability to be consistent. In the context of constitutional rights, there should be no allowances for ideology, religious beliefs, or hurt feelings. Objectivity isn't an easy stance to take, but it is necessary for the preservation of freedoms.
 
Considering the views expressed within it towards the infidels along with its instructions for the proper way to decapitate, it constitutes an "incitement to hatred".

Should it be illegal?

An interesting question and equally applicable to the Bible. The answer is 'no', because religious books are not meant to be taken literally. Wait... most people don't realize that, hmmmm.

I was explaining the other day how the Tower of Babel is not actually a tower being constructed of inconceivable heights. It's the story of the agricultural revolution, which we scientifically know for a fact occurred at the same place around the same time (~15k ya). Presumably, when man discovered the use of seeds, our population exploded, sending civilized (self sustaining) populations in all directions.
 
I have to say there are lots of things that boggle the mind that other people do, things I'd never consider nor want to be a part of - respecting their right to do it and participate in it is what freedom is all about, at least for me.

So if you witness a minority being excoriated by, lets say a skinhead, your opinion of freedom is it's the skinhead's right to express his rage and your right to look the other way.
Aren't you glad you live in America?
 
So if you witness a minority being excoriated by, lets say a skinhead, your opinion of freedom is it's the skinhead's right to express his rage and your right to look the other way.
Aren't you glad you live in America?

CanadaJohn doesn't live in America. ;)

edit: and to answer your question, yes, it is the skinheads' right to express rage, and it's your right to ignore it. If you were outraged by something, would you not want your right to express that opinion preserved?
 
Well, I'm not great at debating, but I do have a grasp of concepts, and the ability to be consistent. In the context of constitutional rights, there should be no allowances for ideology, religious beliefs, or hurt feelings. Objectivity isn't an easy stance to take, but it is necessary for the preservation of freedoms.

I think you summed it perfectly too! :)
 
Until the skin head does something illegal. Like drive an incinendry device with thousands of flammable liquid soaked books down the highway. THen bust him. I am glad I live in a country where the skinhead can have his say, but cannot physically harm anyone.
So if you witness a minority being excoriated by, lets say a skinhead, your opinion of freedom is it's the skinhead's right to express his rage and your right to look the other way.
Aren't you glad you live in America?
 
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