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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I'm curious. Why would your government feel the need to do something like that? What does it matter if some crackpot or his followers say something that is patently untrue and easily proven to be false?

    Do you fear reprisals from members of your Jewish community similar to those of muslim fundamentalists? Perhaps you think Israel will nuke Amsterdam? I'm being facetious about the risks, but I still find it curious that your nation would make such a thing illegal.
    Because it is illegal to discriminate and holocaust denial is a sort of discrimination.

    And no, this has nothing to do with fear but with respect and out of respect for the 110,000 Dutch Jews who were murdered by the Germans the denial of that murder has been made illegal.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Because it is illegal to discriminate and holocaust denial is a sort of discrimination.
    how is it discrimination?

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    how is it discrimination?
    It is part of our discrimination laws to deliberately make derogatory remarks towards a racial group. In this case denying the holocaust is seen as insulting and derogatory meant to defame and insult Jews.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    It is part of our discrimination laws to deliberately make derogatory remarks towards a racial group. In this case denying the holocaust is seen as insulting and derogatory meant to defame and insult Jews.
    Okay, you have "hate speech" laws. Fair enough. Far be it from me to judge how another society chooses to limit the exercise of individual rights. That's what national sovereignty is all about.

    Just note, American's have a significantly different viewpoint in that area.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    It is part of our discrimination laws to deliberately make derogatory remarks towards a racial group.
    Yeah, I am responding to a post where you state it's viewed as discrimination under dutch law, and I never disputed that claim. What I asked was how does that actually amount to discrimination

    In this case denying the holocaust is seen as insulting and derogatory meant to defame and insult Jews.
    That seems a rather wide net to cast

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Okay, you have "hate speech" laws. Fair enough. Far be it from me to judge how another society chooses to limit the exercise of individual rights. That's what national sovereignty is all about.

    Just note, American's have a significantly different viewpoint in that area.
    Yes, we have hate speech laws but these are only applicable when the comments which are found to be illegal/discriminatory or insulting are made publicly. If you are sitting in your living room and you tell your wife/brother/etc. something outside of the public domain you cannot be prosecuted because it falls under freedom of speech. You can only be prosecuted if you make public statements and not private statements.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Yeah, I am responding to a post where you state it's viewed as discrimination under dutch law, and I never disputed that claim. What I asked was how does that actually amount to discrimination



    That seems a rather wide net to cast

    I was just generalizing, but the our criminal law says

    Artikel 137c

    1. Hij die zich in het openbaar, mondeling of bij geschrift of afbeelding, opzettelijk beledigend uitlaat over een groep mensen wegens hun ras, hun godsdienst of levensovertuiging, hun hetero- of homoseksuele gerichtheid of hun lichamelijke, psychische of verstandelijke handicap, wordt gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste een jaar of geldboete van de derde categorie.

    1. He, who publicly, be it verbal/written or through images, intentionally makes insulting comments about a group of people because of their race, their religion or non-religious views, their sexual preference (be it straight or gay) or physical, psychological or mental handicap, will be punished with a prison sentence of no more than one year or a financial fine of the third scale.


    2. Indien het feit wordt gepleegd door een persoon die daarvan een beroep of gewoonte maakt of door twee of meer verenigde personen wordt gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste twee jaren of geldboete van de vierde categorie opgelegd.

    2. When the crime has been committed by a person who is doing this professionally or who makes a habit of the crimes mentioned in article 137c or who does it in union with 2 or other people can be sentenced to a prison sentence of no more than 2 years and a fine of the fourth scale.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I was just generalizing, but the our criminal law says

    Artikel 137c

    1. Hij die zich in het openbaar, mondeling of bij geschrift of afbeelding, opzettelijk beledigend uitlaat over een groep mensen wegens hun ras, hun godsdienst of levensovertuiging, hun hetero- of homoseksuele gerichtheid of hun lichamelijke, psychische of verstandelijke handicap, wordt gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste een jaar of geldboete van de derde categorie.

    1. He, who publicly, be it verbal/written or through images, intentionally makes insulting comments about a group of people because of their race, their religion or non-religious views, their sexual preference (be it straight or gay) or physical, psychological or mental handicap, will be punished with a prison sentence of no more than one year or a financial fine of the third scale.


    2. Indien het feit wordt gepleegd door een persoon die daarvan een beroep of gewoonte maakt of door twee of meer verenigde personen wordt gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste twee jaren of geldboete van de vierde categorie opgelegd.

    2. When the crime has been committed by a person who is doing this professionally or who makes a habit of the crimes mentioned in article 137c or who does it in union with 2 or other people can be sentenced to a prison sentence of no more than 2 years and a fine of the fourth scale.

    Again, I'm not trying to dispute what Dutch law is, I am asking how does it actually amount to discrimination. As in, how would holocaust denial amount to "intentionally making insulting comments about a group of people".

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Preventing free expression is exactly what Pastor Jones does.....



    "....A "climate of fear and control" had previously prevailed in the congregation, says one former member of the church who does not want to be named. Instead of free expression, "blind obedience" was demanded, he says.

    Various witnesses gave SPIEGEL ONLINE consistent accounts of the Jones' behavior. The pastor and his wife apparently regarded themselves as having been appointed by God, meaning opposition was a crime against the Lord. Terry and Sylvia Jones allegedly used these methods to ask for money in an increasingly insistent manner, as well as making members of the congregation carry out work....read...."

    Islamophobe's Past in Germany: Terry Jones Accused of 'Spiritual Abuse' at Cologne Church - SPIEGEL ONLINE
    It doesn't matter whether he's a jerk or not, he still has a right to free speech, just like everyone else. So how is his past relevant to the discussion?

  10. #410
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    It doesn't matter whether he's a jerk or not, he still has a right to free speech, just like everyone else. So how is his past relevant to the discussion?
    His past helps to show that his intent isn't just peaceful protest or an exercise in free speech. His intent is to abuse the right to free speech to incite violence.

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