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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I'm glad that an idiot wasn't allowed to burn thousands of religious texts and by doing so endanger nato soldiers in Afghan. Yes I'm very glad
    So when religious extremists flip out and kill people, you blame the people who agitated them, not the people who actually committed the crime? Man, that is some pretty intense ****.

    Two people get in an argument, one pulls out a gun and shoots the other. The guy who's shot should be blamed for aggrevating him to the point of violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Then pull back your forces...Your not this backwater country from the 1700's anymore your the most powerful country in the world by your own making but yet you seem to get confused by how certain actions by your citizens can directly effect your troops and allied troops in combat? You can't just say what you want anymore your the big kid in the playground which is something your government understands fully.
    If the situation is so dire that an American expressing his own non-violent beliefs causes a "clear and present danger" for our troops, then we need to pull out, plain and simple. Curtailing liberty to appease the muslims is not the answer.

    I think it's kind of sad that you value their hurt feelings over liberty.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 09-13-13 at 03:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    but the Bush and Obama administrations have been very clear that they do not want to dramatically alter the United States in order to combat its enemies.
    Does this mean you get to keep your shoes on at the airport now without paying the $85 background/fingerprint check that TSA encourages travelers to do in advance so that they can skip the long lineups at security checkpoints?

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I agree that ignorant actions of some attention whores can cause violent reactions in areas traditionally suppressed by both outside and internal forces. Let's not pretend the conditions around the world are the same as in this country so we can compare our idiots to others overseas.

    But of course we also can't pretend the fact that 99% of Muslims ignore these fatwas doesn't exist as well.

    But there are a variety of ignorant attention whores who have and can cause problems with other nations and people... BushII's administration mocking 'old europe' for not blindly following the USofA into Iraq for instance.

    Didn't Rep King of New York support the IRA attacks in England as righteous and the English have only themselves to blame for the terrorist attacks?

    Terry can talk all the crap he wants, book burning, especially religious book burning crosses a line.

    But it does seem as though in this country it is the so-called christians and 'patriots' who attacks the Muslim faith not the other way round...
    See, your examples deal with words that fools may utter whereas mine deal with crimes of assault, murder and bombings. In western society we believe in the right to freely express oneself without government intervention. You seem to be promoting silence in order not to upset those who resort to violence at the drop of a pin.

    Silence has led to far more death and violence in this world than noisy protest ever has.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    It just saddens me that you guys and gals jump over any non American post on here with contempt and suspicion. I'm not anti American I am in fact married to one and love your country like a second home. I offered many compelling reasons why this man shouldn't burn any religious texts mainly to protect American/ Nato soldiers and American Diplomatic workers. I have nothing but respect for Amrican history and your constitution which was a master piece written by very smart men however I value human life more especially the men and women in uniform and don't feel its in our interest to make they already heavy workload heavier.

    I guess it is what it is and in this instance we are miles apart.
    I'm Canadian, and have no problem with you raising this issue from your point of view, even though I reject the argument. One man's speech should not be silenced simply in order to protect against the potential of some other man committing a crime. Why should criminals rule our lives?

    To use your logic, we should close all bars because some people get drunk and get into fights on the sidewalk outside, sometimes killing one another. Maybe shopping malls should be closed because some people are pushed into stealing at the sight of things they don't possess. Maybe cars should be banned since some people commit crimes while operating them.

    The sad part is that some people actually think that radicals who'd commit crimes using Terry as an excuse would suddenly commit no crimes if Terry and others like him were silent. I'll bet far more terrorists are plotting in caves and tents right now because of Obama's drone program than anything else.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Godwin's Law is being invoked here. You lose all arguments.
    Burning books is the context of this discussion and the Nazis burned books. You lose for invoking Godwin's Law.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    I understand the grounds upon which he was arrested. What I would like to understand is what the justification for those grounds was.

    Why was he denied a permit?

    As far as I know, any peaceful protest should be granted grounds. Burning books is fundamentally peaceful, and it has been ruled by the Supreme Court that burning the American flag itself falls under that purview.

    Why doesn't burning the Quaran?

    I do not agree with the pastor's simplistic view of reality, or his vilification of millions of American citizens of a certain faith. But that does not alter his right to demonstrate.

    Any speech at all -- including posting on this forum -- could be qualified as "endangering" American peace efforts, if you're willing to go through enough mental gymnastics. But ultimately, people are responsible for their own actions, and that is the basis of freedom of speech. Being pissed off that someone offended your own beliefs does not justify committing violence. You are responsible for what you do.

    So under what laws was this man prohibited from getting a license to demonstrate as he saw fit?

    As distasteful as I find his cause, this seems like a straight-up case of government censorship to me, and what he attempted to do seems like a straight-up display of meaningful civil disobedience in the truest possible form. Of what worth is "freedom of speech" if you will not defend it when you don't like it?

    On what grounds was he prohibited from having a peaceful protest? On what grounds is the book of the Quaran protected, where the American flag is not? And on what grounds is protest in this way so egregious compared to other socially controversial means of peaceful protest?

    I don't see any grounds, within the purview of American free speech, to have prohibited this man from burning the Quaran.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm Canadian, and have no problem with you raising this issue from your point of view, even though I reject the argument. One man's speech should not be silenced simply in order to protect against the potential of some other man committing a crime. Why should criminals rule our lives?

    To use your logic, we should close all bars because some people get drunk and get into fights on the sidewalk outside, sometimes killing one another. Maybe shopping malls should be closed because some people are pushed into stealing at the sight of things they don't possess. Maybe cars should be banned since some people commit crimes while operating them.

    The sad part is that some people actually think that radicals who'd commit crimes using Terry as an excuse would suddenly commit no crimes if Terry and others like him were silent. I'll bet far more terrorists are plotting in caves and tents right now because of Obama's drone program than anything else.
    I thought Canada had some limits on free speech.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So when religious extremists flip out and kill people, you blame the people who agitated them, not the people who actually committed the crime? Man, that is some pretty intense ****.
    Yeah, thats like blaming Charlie Manson instead of the Merry Pranksters who actually committed the crimes.

    Two people get in an argument, one pulls out a gun and shoots the other. The guy who's shot should be blamed for aggrevating him to the point of violence?
    The guy with the gun can just claim he was 'standing his ground'.

    If the situation is so dire that an American expressing his own non-violent beliefs causes a "clear and present danger" for our troops, then we need to pull out, plain and simple. Curtailing liberty to appease the muslims is not the answer.

    I think it's kind of sad that you value their hurt feelings over liberty.
    I don't think he was expressing a "non violent belief". He knew he was inciting violence against our troops and Americans abroad. He doesn't have the right to put other peoples lives in danger anymore than Charlie Manson did.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yeah, thats like blaming Charlie Manson instead of the Merry Pranksters who actually committed the crimes.

    The guy with the gun can just claim he was 'standing his ground'.

    I don't think he was expressing a "non violent belief". He knew he was inciting violence against our troops and Americans abroad. He doesn't have the right to put other peoples lives in danger anymore than Charlie Manson did.
    Holy ****. You're really comparing burning books with ordering people to kill someone? That's like an all new level of hyperbolic garbage.

    So in your mind, we should ban ANYTHING that will inspire the islamists to kill people? What if they started killing people every day until we gave up pork? Would you be down? Or would you do a complete 180 and start talking about freedom?

    How dare some bastard eat pork when he KNOWS islamists will kill people for it!
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post

    As soon as 'freedom of speech" comes into play you American turn into emotional wrecks but guess what its a very small world now and you are running the show so get used to it.
    It is not emotional wreckage you are seeing. It is passion about a right that was won with bloodshed, and we fortunately still have citizens who appreciate and value the high cost that was paid in order to give us that right. I personally am not willing to piss it away in honor of a jihadist crusade.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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