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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

  1. #351
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    If they think it is a reasonable response to the innocuous to kill, then they deserved to be killed in return. Simple as that.
    In the mean time innocent lives are lost. Why? I question if it is worth it.
    Last edited by opendebate; 09-13-13 at 01:13 AM.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    What I hope would be obvious by this point is that you think that's all your doing, but there's a major side effect to your view called letting them have whatever they want because they threw a big tantrum. . .Remember that one episode of the Twilight Zone where the kids had the supernatural powers to hurt people? And everyone gave him anything he wanted because they feared for their lives? Yeah, your view is like that. Exactly like that.

    . . . and what happened in that episode? Mmhmm - rent the DVD, I think it would be a good lesson, here. (Episode 31 - season 1). (And it is just that pathetic that I can compare a 'religious thug group' to an episode of the Twilight Zone - they are just that bizarre and out of control)

    You don't want to give the extremists what they want, but you are, anyway, and you're getting nothing in return. There is no 'oh, well since you played fair, we'll not drill out the eyes of our prisoner's, over here.'

    Have you paid attention to what sets them off? I have - things like a cartoon pictures and a painting of Mohammed that wasn't offensive. I'm surprised that when McD's designed the 'offensive icecream' that they didn't hack off their own hands and gouge out their own eyes (before they hacked off their hands, of course). Oh, but when the McD's cone incident did occur I bet they threatened the CEO to repent and recant, which she did, out of fear.

    We're not dealing with reasonable people.

    Heck - earlier I griped that *if you actually cared* - but really, it should be *if anyone in the entire world actually cared.*

    The Catholic Church behaved in the same way - and it led to the 100 years war, but guess what? They no longer torch non-believers and plague the world like Devils.
    But see I'm not surprised by them anymore because this is how they react to these situations and they have done for a very long time. I would be fine with Cartoons and Book burnings if that's what people wanted to do but unfortunately we are in these countries trying to restore order and keep the peace and these actions interfere with our end goal. This isn't an ideological struggle and this isn't the Nazis, our society is not at threat despite what you read In the mainstream ratings obsessed media.

    Anyway its early hours here and I have another late shift so goodnight and sleep tight x

    Anyway it's
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

  3. #353
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    In the mean time innocent lives are lost. Why? It's not worth it.
    It's not worth it to give up your way of life because someone goes above and beyond reasonable to find fault with it. Why should we be slaves to the feckless imagination of a distant mob that are not even citizens of our nation?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #354
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It's not worth it to give up your way of life because someone goes above and beyond reasonable to find fault with it. Why should we be slaves to the feckless imagination of a distant mob that are not even citizens of our nation?
    You are exaggerating. The sky is not falling. We are not "giving up our way of life" I am suggesting that compromise in some situations is not an unreasonable thing to consider. We have done it before and should when we have a most certain loss of life vs a small compromise that is specific to situations such as this.

    The Supreme Court has rejected an interpretation of speech without limits.

    There are no simple rules for determining when speech should be limited, but there are some general tests that help.

    Clear and Present Danger
    Will this act of speech create a dangerous situation? The First Amendment does not protect statements that are uttered to provoke violence or incite illegal action.

    These are already established limitations.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    You are exaggerating. The sky is not falling. We are not "giving up our way of life" I am suggesting that compromise in some situations is not an unreasonable thing to consider. We have done it before and should when we have a most certain loss of life vs a small compromise that is specific to situations such as this.

    The Supreme Court has rejected an interpretation of speech without limits.

    There are no simple rules for determining when speech should be limited, but there are some general tests that help.

    Clear and Present Danger
    Will this act of speech create a dangerous situation? The First Amendment does not protect statements that are uttered to provoke violence or incite illegal action.

    These are already established limitations.
    When they are flipping their **** over a guy drawing a cartoon or an unknown person book burning..and because of that we need to restrict what goes on, yes, that compromise is way the hell too broad and reaches into far too many territories. Our freedoms and liberties will be dictated by the reactions of people we owe no allegiance to and whom owe no allegiance to us.

    How ridiculous could you possibly be?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    When they are flipping their **** over a guy drawing a cartoon or an unknown person book burning..and because of that we need to restrict what goes on, yes, that compromise is way the hell too broad and reaches into far too many territories. Our freedoms and liberties will be dictated by the reactions of people we owe no allegiance to and whom owe no allegiance to us.

    How ridiculous could you possibly be?
    Well..... I guess this conversation is over.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Well..... I guess this conversation is over.
    Furthermore, when we clamped down on dissent, it was on our terms, not the enemy. If we are to clamp down on civil liberties, at least we should do it right.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Furthermore, when we clamped down on dissent, it was on our terms, not the enemy. If we are to clamp down on civil liberties, at least we should do it right.
    This would be on our terms. It's simply a matter of how one chooses to see it.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    This would be on our terms. It's simply a matter of how one chooses to see it.
    "if you burn those korans we'll riot and put your troops at risk". That's not on our terms. That would be us kowtowing to terrorists tactics.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Ok its very late where I am and im up watching the Patriots play like **** so excuse my bluntness.

    1. Please mind your tone and speak to me with some respect. I fought for my country and stood side by side with America in Iraq. I experienced the worst few days of my life in Basra Iraq because a tabloid newspaper printed a story with pictures which ended up to be false but the backlash from that story got people I know killed and put me through hell. So believe me when I say I know exactly how it feels to be put in danger because of some bull**** that is happening thousands of miles away.
    2. Stop playing the victim card. I'm fed up of listening to American posters bitch and moan about being the " world police" and " cleaning up other peoples mess". America looks after her own interests first and you have military bases all over the world for the sole purpose of furthering your own countries interests. If you don't like it I suggest you write to your congressmen and ask him to take your chips of the table because right now you are a high roller and are very much game.
    3. Why do you keep referring to bullies and standing up to bullies? Your powerful country on this planet no one bullies you and no one is bullying you in this instance. What I am talking about ( and many others) is keeping OUR SOLDIERS ( I still have friends in afghan with the British army as we speak) safe. No one is talking about surrendering, no one is talking about giving the enemy anything instead we are suggesting that it is in OUR best interests to allow our military and political personal do their job without the risk of extra pressures/ dangers which would happen if idiots like this pastor are allowed to do what he wants when he wants.
    4. We have been taking care of the bad guy for over a decade and the West is winning the fight. Respecting middle eastern culture isn't surrendering its smart business especially when the West buys oil and trades with these countries. Again if you don't care about the middle east then have a word with your government because they care and they have been appeasing them for a very long time.

    As soon as 'freedom of speech" comes into play you American turn into emotional wrecks but guess what its a very small world now and you are running the show so get used to it.
    Well said.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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