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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Sorry, but we're talking about trying to restict a person in the USA burning qurans because muslims will attack American troops and others in other parts of the world. Are you aware of any other religious group issuing a fatwa calling for the death of all members of another religious group or specifically an individual deemed to have insulted their spiritual leader? Let's not play games and pretend all are equal in the way they treat those outside their faith or with no religious affiliation at all.
    I agree that ignorant actions of some attention whores can cause violent reactions in areas traditionally suppressed by both outside and internal forces. Let's not pretend the conditions around the world are the same as in this country so we can compare our idiots to others overseas.

    But of course we also can't pretend the fact that 99% of Muslims ignore these fatwas doesn't exist as well.

    But there are a variety of ignorant attention whores who have and can cause problems with other nations and people... BushII's administration mocking 'old europe' for not blindly following the USofA into Iraq for instance.

    Didn't Rep King of New York support the IRA attacks in England as righteous and the English have only themselves to blame for the terrorist attacks?

    Terry can talk all the crap he wants, book burning, especially religious book burning crosses a line.

    But it does seem as though in this country it is the so-called christians and 'patriots' who attacks the Muslim faith not the other way round...

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Why should we worry about what Americans say and do to America when we let foreign enemy dictators write op-eds in our papers and a huge segment of a certain political party cheers him on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Then by all means, we should start asking for their governments to jail every single person that rails against Americans in a demonstration. Then, at home, we should start looting and becoming dogs because of a youtube video.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I understand your point but I question whether this instance is not consistent with other situations where we have chosen to put limitations on an individuals First Amendment rights.

    IE:
    Speech that involves incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity, child pornography, threats, and speech owned by others are all completely exempt from First Amendment protections
    United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The consistencies I see here is when harm is likely to be done to innocent bystanders because of your actions. This seems like it would fall inline with this criteria. I do not advocate or take lightly the notion of limits to our rights but life has taught us that there are times when we must and have chosen to do so. Like I said before, if his actions only put HIM as risk then say whatever you want, but he is making that choice for others and I don't believe he has that right. Also, I don't see Americans surrendering their rights easily. I don't think it is sensible to fear an exception for situations like this would lead us to a greater loss or larger compromise.
    The SCOTUS has already ruled that burning flags and books, even religious books, is protected "speech" under the first amendment. If our government suddenly bans the burning of one book... the Koran... bans creating cartoons or other images of one historical figure... Mohammad, then how many other groups will be in line to have their religious icons and deities protected from criticism as well. And what punishment should the government... the US government... mete out to those who dare exercise their constitutional rights against these protected exceptions... and all the other protected exceptions that will follow? Trial and imprisonment? Imprisonment without trial? For how long... months, years, decades? You see where this must eventually lead?

    The dominos only stand until the first one is kicked over.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Why should we worry about what Americans say and do to America when we let foreign enemy dictators write op-eds in our papers and a huge segment of a certain political party cheers him on.
    You got no argument from me about certain folks somehow turning into pro-Ruskies because they hate Obama.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I understand your point but I question whether this instance is not consistent with other situations where we have chosen to put limitations on an individuals First Amendment rights.

    IE:
    Speech that involves incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity, child pornography, threats, and speech owned by others are all completely exempt from First Amendment protections
    United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The consistencies I see here is when harm is likely to be done to innocent bystanders because of your actions. This seems like it would fall inline with this criteria. I do not advocate or take lightly the notion of limits to our rights but life has taught us that there are times when we must and have chosen to do so. Like I said before, if his actions only put HIM as risk then say whatever you want, but he is making that choice for others and I don't believe he has that right. Also, I don't see Americans surrendering their rights easily. I don't think it is sensible to fear an exception for situations like this would lead us to a greater loss or larger compromise of our rights.
    You cannot claim that Americans don't "surrender their rights easily" in the same post that you gleefully roll over. You'll make the same argument for next right you want us to give up (guns maybe?) I thought liberals placed a high value on free speech. Has that changed?

  6. #336
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post


    If you really want to insult me, you'll have to do better than accusing me of not understanding the argument, when everyone watching can see it's the other way around.

    I'm done here. Or am I....

    It just saddens me that you guys and gals jump over any non American post on here with contempt and suspicion. I'm not anti American I am in fact married to one and love your country like a second home. I offered many compelling reasons why this man shouldn't burn any religious texts mainly to protect American/ Nato soldiers and American Diplomatic workers. I have nothing but respect for Amrican history and your constitution which was a master piece written by very smart men however I value human life more especially the men and women in uniform and don't feel its in our interest to make they already heavy workload heavier.

    I guess it is what it is and in this instance we are miles apart.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    The SCOTUS has already ruled that burning flags and books, even religious books, is protected "speech" under the first amendment. If our government suddenly bans the burning of one book... the Koran... bans creating cartoons or other images of one historical figure... Mohammad, then how many other groups will be in line to have their religious icons and deities protected from criticism as well. And what punishment should the government... the US government... mete out to those who dare exercise their constitutional rights against these protected exceptions... and all the other protected exceptions that will follow? Trial and imprisonment? Imprisonment without trial? For how long... months, years, decades? You see where this must eventually lead?

    The dominos only stand until the first one is kicked over.
    More than that, the outrage here is incredibly removed. They are halfway around the world, reacting to a video no one has seen, a book burning no one knows about, and so on. I'm sorry, but even if you can somehow erode the entire legal structure for freedom of speech, we are bending over backwards because someone had to spend all of that time looking for something to be outraged at.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    It just saddens me that you guys and gals jump over any non American post on here with contempt and suspicion. I'm not anti American I am in fact married to one and love your country like a second home. I offered many compelling reasons why this man shouldn't burn any religious texts mainly to protect American/ Nato soldiers and American Diplomatic workers.
    .
    Conceding to terrorists only makes them stronger. If you keep giving in to pressures to change, in the name of security, you eventually lose your freedom, and the terrorists still hold the same threat, and the same hatred, that they did initially.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Conceding to terrorists only makes them stronger. If you keep giving in to pressures to change, in the name of security, you eventually lose your freedom, and the terrorists still hold the same threat, and the same hatred, that they did initially.
    again I don't see it as conceding I see it as taking the moral highground, let them be animals. But obviously this sentiment is not shared with you guys.


    and im pissed because its the am here and im up watching my Patriots play the worst game of American football I have ever seen
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    again I don't see it as conceding I see it as taking the moral highground, let them be animals. But obviously this sentiment is not shared with you guys.


    and im pissed because its the am here and im up watching my Patriots play the worst game of American football I have ever seen
    If we would let them be animals, we would not lock up Jones and we wouldn't be having that conversation. Their reaction would be all theirs, and they would have to own it.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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