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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    This is not the first time this man of God? has burned a Quran. Any intent to cause a riot should be protected under the First Amendment, right?
    There are standards for when expression can legally be considered incitement of a riot, a major component is likelihood of imminent danger. It is not determined by the viewpoint expressed and whether it might offend someone. A riot that happens a few days later or hundreds of miles away is not legally considered to have been incited by the views of the original speaker (or book burner).

    Some other nations have hate speech laws, the USA doesn't. I'm glad because they can be used to silence speech legitimately criticizing religions or groups of people, for example those who criticize the Catholic Church's protection of child molesters.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 09-12-13 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Agreed that he has a constitutional right to free speech...

    And really, if Jones wants to continue to make it all about him on every anniversay of the 9/11 tragedy (because this is not the first time he has said he is going to burn a Quran on the anniversary of 9/11), why doesn't he just burn a Quran? I mean he should stop talking about it every year and just get it over with. Show us he's not wasting everybody's time. At least hold a match up to a Quran, get a crazed look in his eyes and wave his arms around like one of the extremist lunatics you see in the ME, dance around a little, spit a little and then do it. Burn baby burn!

    Instead he's a coward and a pussy who talks the talk but won't walk the walk. He wants to make it all about him on 9/11 and take focus away from the victims. A religious nutjob who is no different to the WBC and those he condemns. Here's a thought, next year when he goes down the same path - he should be able to burn as many as he likes. The media shouldn't give him the platform that he so desperately desires and should instead just focus on commemorating the anniversary of the attack and honor the victims and survivors without the nutjobs getting the media attention.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The police routinely detain suspects with the formal charges coming later, so no conspiracy there.

    I see the freedoms associated with religion like most others, yours ends at my nose. Praise GAWD all you want, but attacking another religion is over the line. Would we sit by and claim 1st amendment rights to burn a BBQ full of Torahs coz them Jews kilt Jesus?
    The ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march through a Jewish neighborhood and they were right to do so. Freedom of speech needs to be virtually absolute* or it doesn't exist.

    *restrictions on libel and incitement of riots are legit, few others are.

  4. #294
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    again its fine for you to take this is moral high ground but you are not the one who will be put in harms way when the Islamic world reacts to events like this. Its not even a case of being "bullied" its just common sense.
    You are saying you want people to be ruled by fear of what the bully will do if you anger the bully.
    You are saying you do not want the bully to stop being the bully.
    You are saying you do not care if the bully is given the freedom to continually be the bully.


    You just want the bully to leave you alone.
    Only, the bully is not going to leave you alone no matter what you do or don't do, because the bully doesn't want to be nice.
    The bully wants you to continue to fear him.
    The bully wants to control you. . . and you're letting him. The bully's mission is being accomplished because you're too afraid to stand up to the bully.

    That's where the US soldier comes into the mix. We stand up to the bully. We're like the referee on the game field, the tough guy who stands up for the little kid on the playground.

    Don't you want your loved ones to be free from the bully?
    If you cared about them at all then your answer should be yes. Your answer should be, yes, I want the bully to be stopped, ended, thwarted, and overthrown.

    But you're not talking peace and freedom, you're talking continuing the tyranny by kissing the bully's arse.

    To add:
    You're exactly wrong - I am directly affected.

    How on earth can you support something that will kill your loved ones because of what one person on the other side of the world does? How can you just tolerate that hanging over your head? Why aren't you standing up and putting a bullet in the bully's head to protect your loved one's?

    If I had some gang in my country ruining my life I would not just sit by, I wouldn't want to raise my children, and my grandchildren, in such deplorable conditions - telling them to 'shh, be quiet and the bad guy will look the other way.' I would fight and die if I had to - if it would make a difference.

    What's wrong with you?

    If the people who wanted this so-called peace stood up for them selves and actually did something about it the US then everyone else wouldn't have to constantly step in and police the world.

    But, sorry, we do, because we don't want our countries to be taken over by the same spineless, gutless inaction that has sent the rest of the world into the pit. We refuse to let such tripe control us in that way, and you should too.

    If you actually cared.

    Quit making others into the scapegoat, it's bull****.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 09-12-13 at 10:51 PM.
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You are saying you want people to be ruled by fear of what the bully will do if you anger the bully.
    You are saying you do not want the bully to stop being the bully.
    You are saying you do not care if the bully is given the freedom to continually be the bully.


    You just want the bully to leave you alone.
    Only, the bully is not going to leave you alone no matter what you do or don't do, because the bully doesn't want to be nice.
    The bully wants you to continue to fear him.
    The bully wants to control you. . . and you're letting him. The bully's mission is being accomplished because you're too afraid to stand up to the bully.

    That's where the US soldier comes into the mix. We stand up to the bully. We're like the referee on the game field, the tough guy who stands up for the little kid on the playground.

    Don't you want your loved ones to be free from the bully?
    If you cared about them at all then your answer should be yes. Your answer should be, yes, I want the bully to be stopped, ended, thwarted, and overthrown.

    But you're not talking peace and freedom, you're talking continuing the tyranny by kissing the bully's arse.

    To add:
    You're exactly wrong - I am directly affected.

    How on earth can you support something that will kill your loved ones because of what one person on the other side of the world does? How can you just tolerate that hanging over your head? Why aren't you standing up and putting a bullet in the bully's head to protect your loved one's?

    If I had some gang in my country ruining my life I would not just sit by, I wouldn't want to raise my children, and my grandchildren, in such deplorable conditions - telling them to 'shh, be quiet and the bad guy will look the other way.' I would fight and die if I had to - if it would make a difference.

    What's wrong with you?

    If the people who wanted this so-called peace stood up for them selves and actually did something about it the US then everyone else wouldn't have to constantly step in and police the world.

    But, sorry, we do, because we don't want our countries to be taken over by the same spineless, gutless inaction that has sent the rest of the world into the pit. We refuse to let such tripe control us in that way, and you should too.

    If you actually cared.

    Quit making others into the scapegoat, it's bull****.
    Ok its very late where I am and im up watching the Patriots play like **** so excuse my bluntness.

    1. Please mind your tone and speak to me with some respect. I fought for my country and stood side by side with America in Iraq. I experienced the worst few days of my life in Basra Iraq because a tabloid newspaper printed a story with pictures which ended up to be false but the backlash from that story got people I know killed and put me through hell. So believe me when I say I know exactly how it feels to be put in danger because of some bull**** that is happening thousands of miles away.
    2. Stop playing the victim card. I'm fed up of listening to American posters bitch and moan about being the " world police" and " cleaning up other peoples mess". America looks after her own interests first and you have military bases all over the world for the sole purpose of furthering your own countries interests. If you don't like it I suggest you write to your congressmen and ask him to take your chips of the table because right now you are a high roller and are very much game.
    3. Why do you keep referring to bullies and standing up to bullies? Your powerful country on this planet no one bullies you and no one is bullying you in this instance. What I am talking about ( and many others) is keeping OUR SOLDIERS ( I still have friends in afghan with the British army as we speak) safe. No one is talking about surrendering, no one is talking about giving the enemy anything instead we are suggesting that it is in OUR best interests to allow our military and political personal do their job without the risk of extra pressures/ dangers which would happen if idiots like this pastor are allowed to do what he wants when he wants.
    4. We have been taking care of the bad guy for over a decade and the West is winning the fight. Respecting middle eastern culture isn't surrendering its smart business especially when the West buys oil and trades with these countries. Again if you don't care about the middle east then have a word with your government because they care and they have been appeasing them for a very long time.

    As soon as 'freedom of speech" comes into play you American turn into emotional wrecks but guess what its a very small world now and you are running the show so get used to it.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Ah - now your picture is more clear, Higgins - of the British Armed Services. I wish I noticed that before.

    See - I'm Aunt Spiker - Spouse of a US Soldier, and he feels the same way I do. He's not blind or stupid about who is truly responsible for such actions.

    You just don't like the dangers associated with being in the service, and you're just going to have to come to terms with that on your own. I don't like the dangers, either, but some things do hold precedence - like common sense.

    If you think I'm being rude, there's nothing I can do about that.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 09-12-13 at 11:16 PM.
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Ah - now your picture is more clear, Higgins - of the British Armed Services.

    See - I'm Aunt Spiker - Spouse of a US Soldier, and he feels the same way I do. He's not blind or stupid about who is truly responsible for such actions.

    You just don't like the dangers associated with being in the service, and you're just going to have to come to terms with that on your own. I don't like the dangers, either, but some things do hold precedence - like common sense.
    No I was fine with the dangers that is why I signed up when I was 16. What I didn't like was taking bullets because of bull**** from back home which had nothing to do with my mission and got in the way of the job I was supposed to be doing. Yes Common sense great word common sense, common sense would be not to let a uneducated fool incite hate and endanger countless lives. Glad you and your husband are ok with that though and of course I imagine you will be willing to pick up a rifle and protect those embassy workers who get attacked on their way to work....Thought not.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    But apparently you are, snowflake.
    Calling me a name may seem cute to you, but it certainly didn't assist your post in making any sense. I fail to see where I am threatening retaliation for Americans exercising free speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    What happened to Paula Deen's rights?
    I was unaware the government arrested her and put her on trial for exercising free speech. Sure, people can call other people the N-word... but there are consequences in a free society, and one of those consequences is to lose sponsors who take offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Its not the muslims in the US that are the issue
    That's true. However, we do not remove constitutional rights for people in the US because someone around the world may get upset and threaten violence. Under your interpretation, free speech would only be a right so long as others aren't angered by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I was trying to make this point earlier to to avail. The difference I see with this man exercising his right to free speech with this act is that it is not just him that could potentially suffer the repercussions from any retaliation. We also can be assured that the threats of retaliation are fairly credible. If we could be assured that radicals around the world would look for THIS guy to retaliate against then fine, but we can not make such assurances.
    So should we suspend our constitutional rights whenever someone around the world might take offense and retaliate? That kind of fear would keep us from putting Muslim mass murderers like Hassan on trial, because some Muslim group might threaten to kill Americans if we do. You can see how that would snowball: Release everyone from Gitmo in two hours or Americans will die; release convicted Islamists terrorist or Americans will die; drop bombs on Tel Aviv or Americans will die... and on it goes. The constitution, as I've said, is not a suggestion. It protects the rights of all Americans, even those we despise. If we start picking out people we don't want to have free speech because of fear or offense, then none of us will ever have free speech again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march through a Jewish neighborhood and they were right to do so. Freedom of speech needs to be virtually absolute* or it doesn't exist.

    *restrictions on libel and incitement of riots are legit, few others are.
    Exactly. I don't understand why that is so difficult for some to comprehend.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    No I was fine with the dangers that is why I signed up when I was 16. What I didn't like was taking bullets because of bull**** from back home which had nothing to do with my mission and got in the way of the job I was supposed to be doing. Yes Common sense great word common sense, common sense would be not to let a uneducated fool incite hate and endanger countless lives. Glad you and your husband are ok with that though and of course I imagine you will be willing to pick up a rifle and protect those embassy workers who get attacked on their way to work....Thought not.
    You can criticize our country, its people and its constitution as much as you want. It's called free speech. All Americans have it, even the evil ones, and all the snark and indignation in the world is not going to change that, or change our constitution.

    BTW, you aren't the only one who has lost friends and loved ones to these damned wars. It is you who are playing the victim card at this point.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    You can criticize our country, its people and its constitution as much as you want. It's called free speech. All Americans have it, even the evil ones, and all the snark and indignation in the world is not going to change that, or change our constitution.

    BTW, you aren't the only one who has lost friends and loved ones to these damned wars. It is you who are playing the victim card at this point.
    No victim act from me I'm just telling you how it is. Its easy to sit on a computer and talk about your rights and no backing down etc. But the fact is you are not the one in the firing line, stopping people like this pastor protects Americans worldwide and not just soldiers either.

    I'm not even criticising America because from what I see your government agrees with me, protection of US troops, US interests and diplomatic workers trumps any political ideology.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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