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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No, the people who would kill others because of this kind of thing are the REAL douchebags.
    Them too
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    So I take it you emphatically uphold the rights of the bullies who expressed their freedom of speech against Karen Klein on the school bus. They didn't cause physical harm; only emotional trauma. But you know, words can kill.
    I don't know about the details on the Klein situation, so I won't comment on that. There is a legal distinction between free expression and harassment. Harassment applies to institutions where people are forced to associate, intent is a factor and in most cases, it has to be repeated unwanted behavior, not just some rude or offensive comment on one occasion. A one time quran burning is not harassment and should not be subject to legal prohibition.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    If our constitutional freedom of speech allows burning the American flags and carrying insulting posters at military funerals, then it allows burning a bunch of books. Muslims are not special little snowflakes on US soil or in the US constitution.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The police routinely detain suspects with the formal charges coming later, so no conspiracy there.

    I see the freedoms associated with religion like most others, yours ends at my nose. Praise GAWD all you want, but attacking another religion is over the line. Would we sit by and claim 1st amendment rights to burn a BBQ full of Torahs coz them Jews kilt Jesus?
    Yes we would and have. I'm a Christian. I don't agree with people burning the Bible, but I recognize their first amendment right to do it.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Yes we would and have. I'm a Christian. I don't agree with people burning the Bible, but I recognize their first amendment right to do it.
    I agree. The constitution is not a suggestion, nor is it something to be ignored when convenient to do so. Lots of people say and do crap everyday that makes me want to punch 'em in the throat, but the constitution gives them the right to express themselves, even hatefully.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1) Burning a book, regardless of how offensive some may perceive it, dies not "cost anyone their lives". Surely people may react to violence to such, but that is their own choice, and they are responding with violence to an action that harms no one.
    This is such a simple truth, I really don't get the difficulty in understanding it.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I don't know about the details on the Klein situation, so I won't comment on that. There is a legal distinction between free expression and harassment. Harassment applies to institutions where people are forced to associate, intent is a factor and in most cases, it has to be repeated unwanted behavior, not just some rude or offensive comment on one occasion. A one time quran burning is not harassment and should not be subject to legal prohibition.
    This is not the first time this man of God? has burned a Quran. Any intent to cause a riot should be protected under the First Amendment, right?

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I agree. The constitution is not a suggestion, nor is it something to be ignored when convenient to do so. Lots of people say and do crap everyday that makes me want to punch 'em in the throat, but the constitution gives them the right to express themselves, even hatefully.
    It's easy to be pro 1st amendment when the speech is inoffensive.

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    You're out there, aren't you?
    On the west coast, yes.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    What if we can not access those people to hold them accountable.
    Sorry, and you think this is relevant because???

    They are simply responsible for their actions and we hold tem accountable even though we may not be able to punish them immediately if ever. If I murder you and then escape to a nation where I cannot be extradited to the USA, do you no longer hold me accountable? As you can see you point has no merit in discussing how WE handle free speech rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    It appears you are arguing with the slippery slope fallacy here. Let me know if I am misunderstanding you. I really do not see that as a real threat, how real is the threat of extreme limitations on our freedom of speech. The threat of violent retaliation against innocent people seems more real and more dangerous. If we could have some guarantee that he would be the only person any retaliation was directed at I would feel more comfortable saying go ahead and say any stupid stuff you want. But since it is not the case. Also, I don't see Americans surrendering any great depth of their freedoms any time soon. It seems similar to me to arguing that is SSM is allowed people will want to marry animals etc. Ain't gonna happen.

    Neither do I believe that they "despise our freedoms" I am leaning towards that being a slogan and not what is actually motivating violent acts against the US
    On the contrary, your argument is circular. Why? Simply because you would hold the individual engaging in free expression accountable for the possible actions of OTHERS who might not like the message and thus might act out. So you believe to prevent others from acting to harm us, you would pre-empt freedom of expression as a preventative measure. Your argument is that since they will likely act out we must assume responsibility for this so we cannot express ourselves for fear they will act out.

    They are going to act out anyway. We have seen this time and again. It is not a slippery slope argument because it has already happened. This case is a prime example; acting in fear of prior bad acts on the part of muslim fundamentalists, a level of our government has acted to curb freedom of expression. This is not the first time people seeking to prevent possible reaction to protest have acted to curb First Amendment (and other Constitutional) rights. Look at all the gun control measures linked to mad-man mass killings. Look at all the violations of Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights linked to fear of the harms of drugs and terrorism.

    The slope is heavily greased.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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