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Thread: US Police arrest Florida pastor

  1. #241
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I read into this thread, and just don't agree with your view.

    It wouldn't have been *his fault* if *they responded* negatively. . . it would have been *their fault* for being total freaking idiots and willing to kill each other over what someone does with a freaking book.

    l.

    The argument reminds me of the one people offer up saying women are responsible for being raped. It transfers responsibility so as to align with the perpetrator.

    You want incitement? How about that damn Lee Rigby fellow. If he hadn't been a white Brit who had the audacity to appear in public wearing a uniform, none of the brave people who tried to decapitate him would have been incited into action. and what is it about Britain allowing all those Jews to run around freely? What's with that,anyway. Everybody knows being a Jew is like waving a red flag in front of these people, so the only sensible thing to do would be to eliminate the provocation, right?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  2. #242
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Come on, transporting 3000 books soaked in a flammable liquid on the highway is stupid. Otherwise I would be all for him practicing his free speech, no matter how stupid.
    Sounds like an episode of CHiPs

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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Because of what you say, I don't think he should have been prevented from doing this, if that's what the timely arrest turns out to be. But then again, free speech doesn't allow one to yell fire in a crowded theatre. And sense this could have a similar effect, meaning people could be harmed or worse as a result of him exercising his free speech............................??
    Should peoplke be arrested for saying they are going to draw a comic of Mohammad?

    People have been killed overt hat too.

  4. #244
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    "Hey Ponch, what the hell is this? 3000 books soaked in kerosene in a barbacue grill?"

    Sometime the real world can be stranger than TV.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

  5. #245
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    "Hey Ponch, what the hell is this? 3000 books soaked in kerosene in a barbacue grill?"

    Sometime the real world can be stranger than TV.
    Well you know if it happened, Poinch would have dirtied his uniform while Jon would have come out clean as a whistle.

  6. #246
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I would refer you (and anyone else who might have missed it buried behind page one) to this post I provided on the subject.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062305979

    As I provide legal analysis and state in that post, I believe the symbolic "book burning" is protected Free Speech, and had the municipality merely granted the requested permits there would be no issue today.
    I always wondered why you called yourself Captain Adverse

    I read it but it doesn't really address my point. My point is not what the beliefs were that motivated his actions but his actions. He was knowingly choosing to do something that could cause harm to many people. Not just people present at the book burning, but Americans abroad. Not to mention the fact the he was denied his permits and knowingly broke the law by attempting to burn the books without them.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  7. #247
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Because it incites hatred and puts lives at risk...
    Soif people reacted poorly to gays kissing on the street that would be enough justification to legally limit it? Just think of the larger implications of your argument: you want to limit reasonable activity that harms no one because the overreaction of ****s.

  8. #248
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    So if anyone cares to respond feel free. There are limitations to our rights aren't there? That whole "fire in crowded room" thing. If someone has stated that they intend to do harm and you catch them in the act (kerosene soaked books and firearm in hand) it seems like the kind of incident that would limit your rights.

    Since the time of ancient republics rights have been understood to have legal limits. The Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights, and the Massachusetts Body of Liberties all set limits on rights.

    Citizens also have the responsibility to exercise their rights within reasonable limits that do not abridge the equal freedom of others.

    Bill of Rights Institute: Limits on Rights | Bill of Rights Institute

    I am honestly just looking for an intelligent conversation about this not a street fight. I am torn on this issue.
    this was already addressed

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062305899

    PS and no, there is no inherent harm in burning books, and people so not have a right to be free from offense

  9. #249
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    I always wondered why you called yourself Captain Adverse

    I read it but it doesn't really address my point. My point is not what the beliefs were that motivated his actions but his actions. He was knowingly choosing to do something that could cause harm to many people. Not just people present at the book burning, but Americans abroad. Not to mention the fact the he was denied his permits and knowingly broke the law by attempting to burn the books without them.
    I think his motivations are irrelevant to the essential issue, since all people who protest are seeking to be seen, heard, and reacted to.

    As I stated in that analysis one's freedom of expression should not be limited simply because someone else might get angry and react with violence. The fact that they might should not be a deterrent, because then THEY control what is and is not Free Speech simply by threat and violence.

    The radical fundamentalists (of both sides) are inherently reactionary. Those who would be offended by the actions taken in the story (had they been permitted) are the same people who already burn flags, bibles, and kill American citizens. They have no moral high ground from which to condemn the actions of this protestor.

    It seems evident that he was denied the permits specifically because of the date he wished to conduct the protest on, "9/11." So now, because foreign fundamentalists might react to a protest of their assault on our nation because they are offended by a symbolic book burning...we must be careful on THAT date NOT to further offend THEM? If you accept this limitation then they now control how we can demonstrate on the date of OUR national tragedy.

    Freedom of expression (speech or otherwise) is one of our fundamental rights. Unless the speaker is clearly inciting "immediate violence," as in the example I gave in the post I directed you to, he should be free to express his point as he wishes.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-12-13 at 05:20 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  10. #250
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    Re: US Police arrest Florida pastor

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    One of us...one of us.

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