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Thread: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    A crusade is a medieval military expedition, one of a series made by Europeans to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries. You're falsely calling the war on terror something it's obviously not. Both the crusades and TWOT both have imperialistic aspects, but that doesn't make the war on terror imperialistic.

    It's a legitimate comparison, that's all. Read on further in the definition.

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    A crusade is a medieval military expedition, one of a series made by Europeans to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries. You're falsely calling the war on terror something it's obviously not. Both the crusades and TWOT both have imperialistic aspects, but that doesn't make the war on terror imperialistic.
    really ?

    l had no idea what it was



    but l have to say that many of these wars were really made to kick turks out of anatolia

    not for any holy land

    wars are always used for political aims

    but lets make peace again

    l know you are kind
    Last edited by Medusa; 09-09-13 at 09:12 AM.
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    He shouldn't take any sides he should stay out of it unless there's a UN resolution.
    Anybody in our country that is on the side of military action in Syria wants to attack president Assad and his forces in support of the Islamic extremist factions.

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    Different perspectives. I see it as a war on terrorists with too much collateral damage.
    But you acknowledge Bush's defining of it as a crusade?

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    The problem lies in our understanding too. We think of our actions as political responses to political actions. THEY think they are engaged in a holy war against us caused by what appears to be our constant interference in their "purely religious" disputes. IMO ignoring that is part of the communication problem.

    Well, I agree with you to a point, but the problem is that only one side seems intent on trying to understand the other side. All we are doing is accepting the "truth" on their terms, thereby reinforcing their incorrect interpretation of our side and painting all future interpretations by them of our side. Words matter deeply in the ongoing struggle, and as long as even the more moderate ME inhabitants hold the view that we are engaged in a holy war against Islam with so much as a challenge to that view from our side there a solution to all the real issues is completely impossible.

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Obama has never kept a promise yet.
    Except for all the times he did:

    PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Obama's Campaign Promises

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, I agree with you to a point, but the problem is that only one side seems intent on trying to understand the other side. All we are doing is accepting the "truth" on their terms, thereby reinforcing their incorrect interpretation of our side and painting all future interpretations by them of our side. Words matter deeply in the ongoing struggle, and as long as even the more moderate ME inhabitants hold the view that we are engaged in a holy war against Islam with so much as a challenge to that view from our side there a solution to all the real issues is completely impossible.

    I grant many of your points, however my argument is that we have been interfering in this region for decades based on claims of "national interest" while ignoring the effects this has had on our relationships with the people living there. We are concerned with OIL and ISRAEL and we have been willing to prop up dictators to protect our Oil access, while undermining them to protect our interests in Israel.

    We have literally created the mess we are in and refuse to extricate ourselves from it. Major military intervention has never been the answer. After 9/11 if we had simply let our elite units deal with it undercover, not only Osama but his entire organization would have been dust back in 2002. Here it is almost 2014 and not only are we still in Iraq and Afghanistan but we've managed to piss off Pakistan, have a major enemy in Iran, and we want to "do something about" Syria.

    We need to pull back and re-evaluate our "interests" in this region, not delve more deeply into it militarily.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 09-09-13 at 09:38 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Obama has never kept a promise yet.
    ACA was passed wasn't it? That was a promise he made and kept. Care to eat that crow now or later?

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I grant many of your points, however my argument is that we have been interfering in this region for decades based on claims of "national interest" while ignoring the effects this has had on our relationships with the people living there. We are concerned with OIL and ISRAEL and we have been willing to prop up dictators to protect our Oil access, while undermining them to protect our interests in Israel.

    There are negative effects with the people of that region no matter what we do. We need to understand that what the radicals in the ME oppose is not our bombs and bullets... that is actually all they really understand. What they oppose is modernity and tolerance. Radicalism breeds off the message of wanton hedonistic evil they attribute to the West, and to America in particular as the most powerful western power. If there is a movement for moderation in the ME we are to blame regardless of our involvement. Israel is hated because it is seen as a Western puppet in their midst. It is a threat to Radical Islam because it is successful and prosperous while they remain at bare subsistence. It is a challenge to their dogma and it's right next door.


    We have literally created the mess we are in and refuse to extricate ourselves from it. Major military intervention has never been the answer. After 9/11 if we had simply let our elite units deal with it undercover, not only Osama but his entire organization would have been dust back in 2002. Here it is almost 2014 and not only are we still in Iraq and Afghanistan but we've managed to piss off Pakistan, have a major enemy in Iran, and we want to "do something about" Syria.

    You make it sound so easy. For every Bin Laden raid you have a Somalia, and killing bin Laden wouldn't have been the end of the threat any more than killing bin Laden has been the end of it.

    Also, keeping any retaliation a secret is a non-starter. 9/11 required a visible and tangible response because the lack of a visible response would only embolden Islamic radicals, and be politically untenable at home. The time to kill bin Laden quietly was in the 1990s.



    We need to pull back and re-evaluate our "interests" in this region, not delve more deeply into it militarily.

    Well, I oppose getting involved in Syria because there is no upside for the US. Neither side is in our best interest. The Syrian Government is in bed with Iran and the Russians, the opposition is beheading, civilian murdering, heart eating barbarians. There is no good side to support.

    We miss the golden opportunities in the region unerringly. The Green Revolution in Iran was the best opportunity we may ever have to truly change the course of the Middle East but we sat back and allowed it to be crushed by the Islamist theocracy. We did the same during the Iraqi uprising following the Gulf War where we left hundreds of thousands of pro-western Iraqis, the left overs from the days of US cooperation in the country, to be slaughtered by Saddam.

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    Re: Obama promises Syria ‘won’t be another Afghanistan’

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You make it sound so easy. For every Bin Laden raid you have a Somalia, and killing bin Laden wouldn't have been the end of the threat any more than killing bin Laden has been the end of it.
    Exactly.

    He became a PR piece for both sides, while alive and then when dead. And that's about it. Giving people the idea that we "won" when our troops killed him was a big mistake.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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