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Thread: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    ha your link makes it look like everyone is steering clear of grid 139

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    The hull on a M48 and a M60 are just about the same, the turrets, not so much. Your post said M60's not M48's. Israel just didn't have all that many of them. Of the ones they had fact is many of the Israel tankers preferred the M48 over the M60. Perhaps because they had more experience with them but it was said the steel was harder because it was older (never made sense to me) and the silhouette was lower.
    My post said M60 because those as well as the Centurion was the front line Israeli MBTs of the '73 war where they faced the T62. FYI both the M48 and M60 had a series of turrets fitted through the years. The M60/ M48E's were superior due to a diesel engine and a bigger caliber main gun. The silhouette difference was mainly due to an enhanced turret shape MUCH appreciated as well as a cupola that allowed the tank commander the ability to use his MG with some cover. A stock M48 had a 9cm main gun, the M48E/M60 the 10.5.

    But do some research, like I said the M60 vs the T62... hands down the M60 was the superior MBT, the higher turret allowed for negative elevation on the main gun so it could use the dunes for hull down fighting while the T62 had to expose itself to engage.

    As far as experience goes- an experienced 'tread head' knows an bigger accurate main gun beats the crap out of a smaller one.

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    c'mon dood just that one ship could have launched a cruise missile unto the target the former seal was lazing
    (if he could have transmitted accurate GPS coordinates?) and stopped the attack?
    Guess they were told to 'stand down' eh ?
    They wouldn't even need to hit the target, detonate a 2,000 lb. warhead of a Tomahawk cruise missile lets say 1.200 feet over the bad guys and after they pooped their diapers they would have took off running.

    If an Arleigh Burke destroyer would have been on station off of the Libya coast like there should have been, it does have a pea shooter known as a 5"/54 dual purpose gun. Three rapid fire savos using HE Com projectiles with time fuses and detonating them 300 feet above the target would have had Al Qaeda running for their lives.

    There were more than a dozen responses that could have been used to save these Americans lives in Benghazi. But as we all know, it was all about a You Tube video.

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    'tread head'
    So size does matter
    why are you goin' on and on? The Israelis whooped ass Then captured a slew of T-62's and only used a few of them cuz the
    American tanks they were being provided were superior?

    Soviet weapons are inferior but they always tried to make it up with superior numbers?
    If the Red Army had ever had flooded across the west German frontier back in the day they'd have all been destroyed before they made it too the Ardennes?

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    My post said M60 because those as well as the Centurion was the front line Israeli MBTs of the '73 war where they faced the T62. FYI both the M48 and M60 had a series of turrets fitted through the years. The M60/ M48E's were superior due to a diesel engine and a bigger caliber main gun. The silhouette difference was mainly due to an enhanced turret shape MUCH appreciated as well as a cupola that allowed the tank commander the ability to use his MG with some cover. A stock M48 had a 9cm main gun, the M48E/M60 the 10.5.

    But do some research, like I said the M60 vs the T62... hands down the M60 was the superior MBT, the higher turret allowed for negative elevation on the main gun so it could use the dunes for hull down fighting while the T62 had to expose itself to engage.

    As far as experience goes- an experienced 'tread head' knows an bigger accurate main gun beats the crap out of a smaller one.
    FYI, I know all I need to know about an M60.

    But the trend now is back toward the smaller guns on the smaller vehicles. A 105 will do just about everything a 120 will but weighs less, costs less, saves space. More bullets to shoot.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    A 105 will do everything a 120 can do
    Sure, if you've got superior targeting abilities

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    Sure, if you've got superior targeting abilities
    Is there a reason you left out the "just about"? But really, you don't even need that. Both of them shoot flat. Very flat.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    So size does matter why are you goin' on and on? The Israelis whooped ass Then captured a slew of T-62's and only used a few of them cuz the American tanks they were being provided were superior? Soviet weapons are inferior but they always tried to make it up with superior numbers? If the Red Army had ever had flooded across the west German frontier back in the day they'd have all been destroyed before they made it too the Ardennes?
    when it comes to size ask your wife...

    The issue was the defense industry and their lap dogs in Congress would hold up inferior Warsaw Pact equipment, Soviet Ships, subs and aircraft as a 'gap' that had to be closed no matter the cost.

    Now the Israelis and the T62 conversions. It was far cheaper to convert the abandoned T62s with improved engines and the 10.5 rifled cannon for compatibility than replace their losses with 100% imports. Those tanks are reserve only, you wont see them on the Golan. Since the '73 war the domestic Merkava has replaced most front line tanks with a rather unique design.

    Well I was never privy to the Warsaw Pact battle plan, how ever Higher told us the objective of the Soviets in our sector would be Frankfurt and cutting the airbridge to the States. Parts of the Autobahn were capable of being emergency air strips for transport aircraft. When I transferred back to CONUS my Bn was sent to FRG to participate in Reforger. We flew into England on a C-5B, transferred to turbo props German aircraft and flew in just north of Frankfurt.

    So why the Ardennes?

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    FYI, I know all I need to know about an M60. But the trend now is back toward the smaller guns on the smaller vehicles. A 105 will do just about everything a 120 will but weighs less, costs less, saves space. More bullets to shoot.
    Actually it is all about air transportable to face 3rd tier armies. No way a 10.5 rifle works as well as a 120mm smoothbore facing 1st tier armor. No way a lightly armored but smaller vehicle goes up against a MBT and lives. Afghanistan is landlocked so sea transport of Abram tanks is problematic. The far lighter Stryker vehicles can be flown in to face an enemy not rich in heavy armor. But the Stryker would not have done well in the battle of 73 Easting in 1991.

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    Re: 1/5 th of the USN surface warships depart the Mediterranean Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Actually it is all about air transportable to face 3rd tier armies. No way a 10.5 rifle works as well as a 120mm smoothbore facing 1st tier armor. No way a lightly armored but smaller vehicle goes up against a MBT and lives. Afghanistan is landlocked so sea transport of Abram tanks is problematic. The far lighter Stryker vehicles can be flown in to face an enemy not rich in heavy armor. But the Stryker would not have done well in the battle of 73 Easting in 1991.
    If anybody wanted a force of Abram tanks in Afgan there has been plenty of time to get them there by now.

    Strykers would have done well in 1991. It's not a tank so it doesn't have quite the capabilities in some areas but the difference in the battle wasn't the difference between a 105mm and 120mm gun tube. I have no clue as how you claim a smaller vehicle goes up against a MBT and lives, that doesn't make any sense. At all. A 105 mm round will destroy an M1 MBT and any other vehicle produced. Generally speaking in armor battles, who shoots first, lives.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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