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Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving... Due In Part To Sequestrat[W:169

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Thomas Sowell, one of the few good intellectuals, on intellectuals influence on society:

Intellectuals and Society - Thomas Sowell - Page full

Should be required reading.

The concluding paragraphs of the above link:

The ideas that Karl Marx created in the 19th century dominated the course of events over wide portions of the world in the 20th century. Whole generations suffered, and millions were killed, as a result of those ideas. This was not Marx's intention, nor the intentions of many supporters of Marxian ideas in countries around the world. But it is what happened.

Some of the most distinguished intellectuals in the Western world in the 1930s gave ringing praise to the Soviet Union, while millions of people there were literally starved to death and vast numbers of others were being shipped off to slave labor camps.

Many of those same distinguished intellectuals of the 1930s were urging their own countries to disarm while Hitler was rapidly arming Germany for wars of conquest that would have, among other things, put many of those intellectuals in concentration camps-- slated for extermination-- if he had succeeded.

The 1930s were by no means unique. In too many other eras-- including our own today-- intellectuals of unquestionable brilliance have advocated similarly childish and dangerous notions. How and why such patterns have existed among intellectuals is a challenging question, whose answer can determine the fate of millions of other people.
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Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

DDD said:
Partisan towards what?
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It varies, but look at who is funding their work.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

keith said:
It varies, but look at who is funding their work.
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You are not very specific are you? Who is funding whose work that makes them partisan?

I guess I am after sources. Got any?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Glen Contrarian said:
But much of the high-end research in this nation - indeed, in all first-world nations - is taxpayer-funded. Check out CERN sometime - it's the world's largest research facility - and it's not in America.

Besides, if we want to discuss how much conservatives love science, all I need do is to point out how a majority of government scientists reported that their work was either edited or changed outright to show results different from what their research showed, or they faced pressure to make sure their research proved this or that point, or there were areas of concern that were completely verboten to study. Of course, this was all concerning climate change, anthropomorphic global warming, and we all know how the conservatives are so eager to protect us all against the liberal/scientific cabal that is trying to turn us all into a Stalinist/ELF/PETA camp.

Come to think of it, that sorta reminds me of how our government statisticians were barred from researching the effect of guns on our society...and then there's the educators - all conservative - who want to insert creationism and 'intelligent design' into our schools, and continually claim that evolution is just a theory (sorta like gravity is just a theory).

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I guess what it comes down to is that conservatives are eager to support science that agrees with what they want to believe in...but if the science says something they don't want to hear, well, THEN it must be rejected, defunded, barred from the public's ears and eyes.
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I really don't know what you are talking about. I'm talking about me. I support science wholeheartily. Social science research, not so much (anything that isn't science qualifies as pseudo-scientific by definition.)

If liberals and progressives would stop their hatred of capitalism and love of dependency, I would probably be the biggest liberal out there. But they haven't so I'm "slightly conservative."
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

DDD said:
You are not very specific are you? Who is funding whose work that makes them partisan?

I guess I am after sources. Got any?
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It does not take a genius to figure out that someone's studies usually agree with the agenda of the individual or company or think tank that is paying their salary.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:
I really don't know what you are talking about. I'm talking about me. I support science wholeheartily. Social science research, not so much (anything that isn't science qualifies as pseudo-scientific by definition.)
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So how does social science qualifies as pseudo-science then?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

keith said:
It does not take a genius to figure out that someone's studies usually agree with the agenda of the individual or company or think tank that is paying their salary.
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Their salary or grant?

I cannot deny that there may be such influence whom could shake the weakest of us into producing rather than reporting data and their analysis. But you use terms that hint that this is a standard occurrence? If it is as standard then there should be sources citing by how much percent this occurrence is as "usual?"
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

On a more un-influenced post, perhaps if these researchers go abroad to conduct their research then there could be more room for us from abroad to do research there?

This started sounding like globalization on the research market type of thing! Next thing you will hear is scientists complaining that the Polish and Romanians would conduct research for next to nothing!
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Grand Mal said:
It's a kind of philistinism, isn't it, this mistrust of arts and science and anything that can't be expressed on a single-sentence bumper sticker. It starts with idolising simplicity and the common (man, sense, knowledge, whatever) and becomes a cult of ignorance.
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I think the mistrust is of lies, of pseudoscience, of hidden agendas... nobody has a particular beef with real science that I am aware, execept those on the left that just want to misuse the fake stuff to scare us into their mindset and "plan". Can you itemize some specifics?

Maybe you already have done so as I am just beginning to read this thread but am not about to ask the poser of this thread, I know then I will never get a real answer, just ad homs.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

DDD said:
Their salary or grant?

I cannot deny that there may be such influence whom could shake the weakest of us into producing rather than reporting data and their analysis. But you use terms that hint that this is a standard occurrence? If it is as standard then there should be sources citing by how much percent this occurrence is as "usual?"
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Don't see why anyone would have a great interest in producing such a study, probably one has not been done.How many trials have you watched where both the defense and prosecuter present "experts" sometimes social scientists, sometimes physical scientists, who strongly disagree?

I suggest everyone look at both the author of the studies and the funder of the studies and ask if they have an agenda and then look for biases in such studies. People can produce statistics that show pretty much whatever they want to show.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

DDD said:
So how does social science qualifies as pseudo-science then?
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The results aren't completely reproducible, and its nearly impossible to get a total isolation of the variables in question.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

jag2594 said:
Yup, conservatives should have a new slogan.


I love chemo therapy. :roll:
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Might you try to make some sense...or is that just something...that...you... just...cannot...bring yourself to actually do?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

head of joaquin said:
I think your tea party vision of America is clear. Idiocracy and McDonalds uberalles.
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...was there an answer to the question in here....? I'm still looking....
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Northern Light said:
My point is that the U.S. used to be the bastion of science and technology. Now we are alienating the very lifeblood that immigrated here to build our nation.

The hatred for intellectuals is growing sharply.
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Wow, another fear monger... learned at the feet of a master, Algae aka Al G aka Al Gore. The sky is falling the sky is falling...or is that global warming...oops, or is that climate change?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:
The results aren't completely reproducible, and its nearly impossible to get a total isolation of the variables in question.
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Are all variables in question isolated while venturing into the unknown of say black matter and dark energy?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

keith said:
Don't see why anyone would have a great interest in producing such a study, probably one has not been done.
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Concerned citizens that ask important questions whether researchers are biased would be interested in conducting such a study for one. Then it is the ethical review board for sure. How about the stakeholders whom really want to know what is going on rather than manipulate the findings?

keith said:
How many trials have you watched where both the defense and prosecuter present "experts" sometimes social scientists, sometimes physical scientists, who strongly disagree?
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I have seen a few. If scientists of various fields do not agree on certain terms that means that the lawyer managed to make most disputed areas as an issue to begin with. The other party should have emphasized areas where there is less dispute.

You see data builds and either suggests in favor of one or the other positions or there is a complete third unknown explanation (sometimes middle ground) for the two. That may not mean that either or both are wrong or right.

Some things take time to explain satisfactorily. But see what happened with the nature versus nurture social scientific dispute for instance. It found an explanatory common ground.

keith said:
I suggest everyone look at both the author of the studies and the funder of the studies and ask if they have an agenda and then look for biases in such studies.
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Agreed. This should be done as such and if concerns are legitimate even wider steps should be taken. If the researcher has conducted unethical research even after all they went through to obtain the degree in the first place I even suggest stripping the one from titles, licenses, jobs, etc, as penalty.

keith said:
People can produce statistics that show pretty much whatever they want to show.
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This cannot hold when the same study is reproduced, critically examined, and otherwise underwent the standard scientific scrutiny though! What you speak of is known as Beta error in social science. There are ways to counter as mentioned above.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

DDD said:
Are all variables in question isolated while venturing into the unknown of say black matter and dark energy?
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No, and that is why it is only a hypothesis and not a theory. It's an attempt to "fill in the blanks" so to speak.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:
No, and that is why it is only a hypothesis and not a theory. It's an attempt to "fill in the blanks" so to speak.
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I understand that. But the issue was if variables cannot be completely isolated then that causes a science to become a pseudo-science. See I asked why social sciences are pseudo-sciences and I had a response from you that it was because variables could not be completely isolated.

On such premises then perhaps astronomy, quantum mechanics, etc, could also be pseudo-sciences then? They do not have all variables covered while venturing into the unknowns of dark matter and dark energy neither.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Gaugingcatenate said:
Might you try to make some sense...or is that just something...that...you... just...cannot...bring yourself to actually do?
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You see... Making money in the medical Industry is hard when no one is sick. So what do they do ? Instead of giving them a treatment that actually works........... You give a treatment that is useless. But the real money is made when the treatment actually makes cancer and other diseases worse. So you have a cycle, someone gets cancer.... Give them Chemo,radiation, and/or surgery and BOOM ! That "patient" is yours for a life time.

Its actually a very good business strategy.... Unless of course...if you are the patient.


I laugh at conservatives, right wing trolls on how they defend business and free market. Nothing but Ignorance...
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

jag2594 said:
You see... Making money in the medical Industry is hard when no one is sick. So what do they do ? Instead of giving them a treatment that actually works........... You give a treatment that is useless. But the real money is made when the treatment actually makes cancer and other diseases worse. So you have a cycle, someone gets cancer.... Give them Chemo,radiation, and/or surgery and BOOM ! That "patient" is yours for a life time.

Its actually a very good business strategy.... Unless of course...if you are the patient.


I laugh at conservatives, right wing trolls on how they defend business and free market. Nothing but Ignorance...
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Care to back any of that up with some evidence?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

jag2594 said:
You see... Making money in the medical Industry is hard when no one is sick. So what do they do ? Instead of giving them a treatment that actually works........... You give a treatment that is useless. But the real money is made when the treatment actually makes cancer and other diseases worse. So you have a cycle, someone gets cancer.... Give them Chemo,radiation, and/or surgery and BOOM ! That "patient" is yours for a life time.

Its actually a very good business strategy.... Unless of course...if you are the patient.


I laugh at conservatives, right wing trolls on how they defend business and free market. Nothing but Ignorance...
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Speaking of ignorance, this post takes the cake.
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

I like how the right wingers are just complaining about global warming in this thread. Not like there are other (most) scientific questions to explore. No new technology to develop. No diseases to cure. No understanding of the cosmos to unlock. Nope, none of that.

An immunologist friend of mine and her three colleagues all lost funding because of the sequester. We don't need to develop better vaccines, right?
 
Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ItAin'tFree said:
Speaking of ignorance, this post takes the cake.
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Haha..... Let me know how chemo goes.
 
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