Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving... Due In Part To Sequestrat[W:169

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Glen Contrarian said:

You support science wholeheartedly? So, since 98% of all climatologists support AGW, and 90% of all scientists support AGW, and every single major national scientific organization on the planet supports AGW, I'm sure you do, too. Glad to hear it. But you're sure the exception when it comes to the conservative rule.

And if you love capitalism, go to China - they're MUCH more capitalist than we are. The same goes for most third-world nations - money talks, BS walks, and all that.

Click to expand...

Like I said, if Democrats would stop hating capitalism and loving dependency Id probably be a bigger democrat then you are. But I'm not going to vote for a bunch of bleeding hearts with small brains on policy; even if it means I'm siding with a party that I disagree with 60% of the time.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:

Like I said, if Democrats would stop hating capitalism and loving dependency Id probably be a bigger democrat then you are. But I'm not going to vote for a bunch of bleeding hearts with small brains on policy; even if it means I'm siding with a party that I disagree with 60% of the time.

Click to expand...

Wow, three ridiculous rightwing memes in two sentences. How do you conservatives write so much without every deviating into a single thought.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

keith said:

States by percentage of black population:

1 Mississippi 1,074,200 37.30%
2 Louisiana 1,452,396 31.98%
3 Georgia 2,950,435 30.02%
4 Maryland 1,700,298 29.44%
5 South Carolina 1,290,684 28.48%
6 Alabama 1,251,311 26.38%
7 North Carolina 2,048,628 21.60%
8 Delaware 191,814 20.95%
9 Virginia 1,551,399 19.91%
10 Tennessee 1,055,689 16.78%
11 Florida 2,999,862 15.91%
12 Arkansas 449,895 15.76%
13 New York 3,073,800 15.18%
14 Illinois 1,866,414 14.88%
15 New Jersey 1,204,826 14.46%

10 out of 15 are in the top 15 homicide rate states. Just the facts.

Click to expand...

Another example of how rightwingers have contempt for science: misuse of statistics to support their weirdo racist sociological theories.

Note that the top 7 are all red states. See how easy it is to play this game.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

head of joaquin said:

Wow, three ridiculous rightwing memes in two sentences. How do you conservatives write so much without every deviating into a single thought.

Click to expand...

We're all still wondering that about you. Really, give the diatribes a rest. We get it, you love to hate and you've chosen a fictional grouping (eViL rightwing teaparty conservative conspiracy of luddities) to vent your hate upon. Like fish, semi-interesting when fresh, but with time begins to smell up the place.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Born Free said:

Good one, I learned that from a union teacher who could not teach. Now do you get my point? I didn't think so.

Click to expand...

No, you didn't: you're just another pretentious tea party knownothing who can't spell.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

clownboy said:

We're all still wondering that about you. Really, give the diatribes a rest. We get it, you love to hate and you've chosen a fictional grouping (eViL rightwing teaparty conservative conspiracy of luddities) to vent your hate upon. Like fish, semi-interesting when fresh, but with time begins to smell up the place.

Click to expand...

"Waaaaaaaaaa, HOJ has exposed our stupid rightwing memes. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ItAin'tFree said:

Yes. Sometimes the truth does hurt. And the truth is, you have trouble reading.

Re-read what I posted. In fact, being you have trouble reading, maybe you should read it three or four times. Maybe, just maybe it will sink in then.

Since when is DC, New Mexico? That's a new twist, even for a liberal.

Four of the top ten states don't meet whatever silly point you are trying to make to begin with. You did ignore that.

Oh well. Practice your reading skills and better luck next time.

Click to expand...

When teapartiers talk about reading skills, it's always like hearing Palin talk about American history. A phantasmagoria of weird ideas and knownothingism.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

keith said:

The fact is the "intellectuals" have been so horribly wrong over the last 150 years that there is a damn good reason to be wary of them and especially to think twice before basing public policy on their advice. Hell, intellectuals are still defending Marxism.

Click to expand...

Exhibit A in the tea party screed of knownothingism. Plus a little historical delusion thrown in. That always spices up a weirdo rightwing meme.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

A few quick points:

1. U.S. R&D accounts for a significantly smaller share of global R&D than it did a decade earlier: nsf.gov - Key Science and Engineering Indicators 2012 Digest - US National Science Foundation (NSF)
2. R&D is investment that is crucial to innovation.
3. Already, research has indicated that the rate of U.S. innovation is slowing.
4. Slower innovation means reduced competitivenes relative to the rest of the world. That translates into a smaller economy and fewer jobs than might otherwise be the case.

If the brain drain cited at the beginning of this thread materializes, and barriers to relocation overseas have probably never been lower, it will have an unmistakable and adverse long-term impact on the United States.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

At least they will still be paying US income taxes.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

head of joaquin said:

When teapartiers talk about reading skills, it's always like hearing Palin talk about American history. A phantasmagoria of weird ideas and knownothingism.

Click to expand...

With this silly post of yours, you make it clear you also have reading problems or know nothing.

In your case, I'm not sure which it is though. But it may be both.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Se...

Threegoofs said:

This post is not logical or reasonable.

I have a feeling you think science has a liberal bias....

Click to expand...

Hardly. If anything, some of the most anti-scientific people I know are left wing social activists.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

head of joaquin said:

The hatred of science and scientists -- a conservative trait.

Back to the 12th century is the tea party creed.

Click to expand...

And to the dungeon with you......and the rack. Bwuahahahahahaha

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

TurtleDude said:

another silly HOJ thread involving moronic attacks on conservatives. Move on, nothing to see, hold your nose, the stench is awful

Click to expand...

NOOOOOOOO! I like HoJ's threads, they teach us all what progressives are like and how they think. :2razz:

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Glen Contrarian said:

Oooooh, wow, the guy gave me a NEWSFLASH!

In fact, HERE's a list of states ordered by percentage of people in prison. And guess what - the thirteen states with the highest percentages are ALL red states...and none of those states are majority-black. And HERE's a list of states ordered by homicide rate. And guess what - thirteen out of the top fifteen were ALL red states...and none of these states are majority-black.

Click to expand...

Are you really that ignorant? I don't think we have a majority black state in the country. That doesn't dispute the fact that blacks make up a higher % of the population in some states then others, and a large number of those states are in the south.......

Glen Contrarian said:

Here's a Really Difficult Question for you: you know how bad the murder rate in Chicago is, right? I mean, you obviously listen to right-wing radio a lot, and they're telling you almost every day how deadly it is to spend the night in Chicago, right? So if Chicago - which has such a high percentage of blacks, remember - why is it that the state of Illinois is only eleventh on the list of states by homicide rate, and all but one of the states with higher homicide rates are not-nearly-as-black-as-Chicago RED states, hm? In fact, if you'll look, the murder rate in Louisiana is TWICE that of Illinois!

Click to expand...

Because Chicago is only one city, and you're looking at the STATE ranking for murder rates. The rest of Illinois is relatively more safe, hence why they have a lower rating. But surely you knew that.....

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:

Psychology isn't exactly a social study per say. But psychology is one of those that have really benefited from technological advancements, and it has a very important role to play with the prevalence of Alzheimer's, dementia, autism related disorders, etc. It was wrong of me to include it in my list earlier, because I do recognize that its research is more relevant as its tools progress in advancement. But Freud on the other hand was just a total nutjob. I wouldn't call it a pure science per say, but there is definitely a very large part of it that is pure science and has major overlap with studies of neuroscience. Like I said before, I think every field varies in its respectability based on its research methods and their real world implications.

Click to expand...

I've followed your debate with DDD, but please contain yourself somewhat. The brand of psychology you're referring to is neuropsychology and is quite different than your run-of-the-mill variety. Neuropsychology is a more disciplined form of research, and limits itself purposefully from too much input to output interpretation. Conversely, the other braches of psychology are not nearly as disciplined, and continue to fall into the soft science categorization, IMO. Economists suffer from the same set of input to output variability, and rely (unavoidably) on datasets that are themselves imperfect, or to be accurate, almost completely useless in practical terms. Granted there are basic economic principles that tend to hold true, that approach predictability thresholds, but we need to remember that these are basic principles, and the more the variability, the less the predictability. Now, what is the common denominator to what separates a soft science to that of a hard science? Variability, right? In the more hard sciences we have little to almost zero variability among interacting objects, whereas in the soft sciences, including economics, anthropology, psychology, psychiatry, or any science that studies any subject, will be subject-to, interpretation. In the hard sciences, any study of an object is not subject to interpretation. It is objective by its very nature, and is an easy way for anyone to tell the difference.

That all said, I am not saying that soft science isn't needed. (What else would we do?), but I am saying that one looking at the data, or relying on the conclusions of others that have looked at the data, need to understand that, at the core, the data will always be subject to interpretation of imperfect variables, and missing information that could, and usually is, based on best guesses to derive correlative significance. Well done research (Where methodology is sound and blind) provides us with a tremendous advantage in deciding which directions we should pursue for further research. Soft sciences provide us direction, and rarely, if ever, provide data that we can make conclusive statements about. We can rest assured that when we have 2 hydrogen atoms, and mix it with one oxygen atom, we'll get water. When we put two guys and one girl on a deserted island, we have no frigging idea what will happen.


Tim-

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Hicup said:

I've followed your debate with DDD, but please contain yourself somewhat. The brand of psychology you're referring to is neuropsychology and is quite different than your run-of-the-mill variety. Neuropsychology is a more disciplined form of research, and limits itself purposefully from too much input to output interpretation. Conversely, the other braches of psychology are not nearly as disciplined, and continue to fall into the soft science categorization, IMO. Economists suffer from the same set of input to output variability, and rely (unavoidably) on datasets that are themselves imperfect, or to be accurate, almost completely useless in practical terms. Granted there are basic economic principles that tend to hold true, that approach predictability thresholds, but we need to remember that these are basic principles, and the more the variability, the less the predictability. Now, what is the common denominator to what separates a soft science to that of a hard science? Variability, right? In the more hard sciences we have little to almost zero variability among interacting objects, whereas in the soft sciences, including economics, anthropology, psychology, psychiatry, or any science that studies any subject, will be subject-to, interpretation. In the hard sciences, any study of an object is not subject to interpretation. It is objective by its very nature, and is an easy way for anyone to tell the difference.

That all said, I am not saying that soft science isn't needed. (What else would we do?), but I am saying that one looking at the data, or relying on the conclusions of others that have looked at the data, need to understand that, at the core, the data will always be subject to interpretation of imperfect variables, and missing information that could, and usually is, based on best guesses to derive correlative significance. Well done research (Where methodology is sound and blind) provides us with a tremendous advantage in deciding which directions we should pursue for further research. Soft sciences provide us direction, and rarely, if ever, provide data that we can make conclusive statements about. We can rest assured that when we have 2 hydrogen atoms, and mix it with one oxygen atom, we'll get water. When we put two guys and one girl on a deserted island, we have no frigging idea what will happen.


Tim-

Click to expand...

Well my best guess is one guy will end up dead and none of them will get off the island.

You're quite right of course..... But psychology at least isn't as bad as say sociology or women's studies.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:

Well my best guess is one guy will end up dead and none of them will get off the island.

You're quite right of course..... But psychology at least isn't as bad as say sociology or women's studies.

Click to expand...

Not so fast, the babe could get killed an eaten and the two guys could be gay.. See..


Tim-

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

head of joaquin said:

No, you didn't: you're just another pretentious tea party knownothing who can't spell.

Click to expand...

Moderator's Warning:

This needs to stop. Please return to the topic. There is some good discussion going on here. Let it happen.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Hicup said:

Not so fast, the babe could get killed an eaten and the two guys could be gay.. See..


Tim-

Click to expand...

Like I said, my best guess........ Probability at its finest.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Se...

ReformCollege said:

Hardly. If anything, some of the most anti-scientific people I know are left wing social activists.

Click to expand...

This is such perfect teabaggery, I couldn't have asked for more.

Conservatives are hostile to science, scientists and science funding. And you blame librals. It's so typical.

Who wants to cut science funding in the Congress? Come on, you can say it out loud.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

donsutherland1 said:

A few quick points:

1. U.S. R&D accounts for a significantly smaller share of global R&D than it did a decade earlier: nsf.gov - Key Science and Engineering Indicators 2012 Digest - US National Science Foundation (NSF)
2. R&D is investment that is crucial to innovation.
3. Already, research has indicated that the rate of U.S. innovation is slowing.
4. Slower innovation means reduced competitivenes relative to the rest of the world. That translates into a smaller economy and fewer jobs than might otherwise be the case.

If the brain drain cited at the beginning of this thread materializes, and barriers to relocation overseas have probably never been lower, it will have an unmistakable and adverse long-term impact on the United States.

Click to expand...

But of course, the scorched-earth anti-science, anti-gummit policies of conservatives are blithely unconcerned about this. That's another trait of conservatism's anti-intellectualism: contempt for the future.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

ReformCollege said:

Are you really that ignorant? I don't think we have a majority black state in the country. That doesn't dispute the fact that blacks make up a higher % of the population in some states then others, and a large number of those states are in the south.......


Because Chicago is only one city, and you're looking at the STATE ranking for murder rates. The rest of Illinois is relatively more safe, hence why they have a lower rating. But surely you knew that.....

Click to expand...

All true - I was giving you a very simplistic argument. Now I'll give you the Reader's Digest version of the real reasons why it's that way, and why conservatives like yourself cannot seem to get past the thought that "well, they're black - and that's why there's more in prison."

I can't count the times I've heard conservatives claim, "Well, they're all equal with everyone else now and have been that way for nearly fifty years, so it can't be racist to say that it's their fault!"

It's as if y'all somehow think that all America's racism ended the day LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act - yep, once he signed, it all just magically ended, huh?

Here's a clue - it hasn't, not by a long shot.

But the thing is, you don't take an entire people, keep them as slaves for centuries, then 'free' them but keep them as second-class citizens for another century, and then expect that when they're FINALLY given equal rights but STILL are mostly live in very poor areas with second-rate schooling, that (1) they'll magically transform into modern, well-educated, low-crime suburbanites, or (2) that those who hated them would suddenly stop hating them, or would somehow refrain from teaching their kids and grandkids how lazy and no-good that blacks are: "See how many of them don't have good jobs and are in prison? They're just n**gers, that's all". The very fact that YOU are pointing to the higher proportion in prison shows that your own outlook has been poisoned by this illogic in one form or another. The racists didn't go away - they just had to find different ways to Keep The Black Man Down - see the "White Citizens Council" (started by a neighbor of mine - Senator James O. Eastland, who was twice president pro-tem, and was the strongest racist in America for two generations). So even though blacks had been granted equality, they still had very far to go to actually become equal...and there were - are - still many people who don't want them to ever become truly equal to the rest of us.

And those 'different ways' are still going on - see the weekly race-baiting by conservative pundits. It doesn't mean that all or even most Republicans are racist, but it DOES mean that conservatives generally TOLERATE racists - otherwise, if your fellow conservatives didn't tolerate the race-baiting, those same pundits wouldn't be on the air. Conversely, is there a single - even ONE - major liberal pundit who uses race-baiting attacks? Even one?

That, sir, is why when one looks at pictures of Republican - and particularly Tea Party - rallies, they're all almost completely lily-white...whereas Democratic rallies are truly multiracial, multicultural, multiethnic. One side rejects the differences - and the other side truly embraces them.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Seques

Glen Contrarian said:

All true - I was giving you a very simplistic argument. Now I'll give you the Reader's Digest version of the real reasons why it's that way, and why conservatives like yourself cannot seem to get past the thought that "well, they're black - and that's why there's more in prison."

I can't count the times I've heard conservatives claim, "Well, they're all equal with everyone else now and have been that way for nearly fifty years, so it can't be racist to say that it's their fault!"

It's as if y'all somehow think that all America's racism ended the day LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act - yep, once he signed, it all just magically ended, huh?

Here's a clue - it hasn't, not by a long shot.

But the thing is, you don't take an entire people, keep them as slaves for centuries, then 'free' them but keep them as second-class citizens for another century, and then expect that when they're FINALLY given equal rights but STILL are mostly live in very poor areas with second-rate schooling, that (1) they'll magically transform into modern, well-educated, low-crime suburbanites, or (2) that those who hated them would suddenly stop hating them, or would somehow refrain from teaching their kids and grandkids how lazy and no-good that blacks are: "See how many of them don't have good jobs and are in prison? They're just n**gers, that's all". The very fact that YOU are pointing to the higher proportion in prison shows that your own outlook has been poisoned by this illogic in one form or another. The racists didn't go away - they just had to find different ways to Keep The Black Man Down - see the "White Citizens Council" (started by a neighbor of mine - Senator James O. Eastland, who was twice president pro-tem, and was the strongest racist in America for two generations). So even though blacks had been granted equality, they still had very far to go to actually become equal...and there were - are - still many people who don't want them to ever become truly equal to the rest of us.

And those 'different ways' are still going on - see the weekly race-baiting by conservative pundits. It doesn't mean that all or even most Republicans are racist, but it DOES mean that conservatives generally TOLERATE racists - otherwise, if your fellow conservatives didn't tolerate the race-baiting, those same pundits wouldn't be on the air. Conversely, is there a single - even ONE - major liberal pundit who uses race-baiting attacks? Even one?

That, sir, is why when one looks at pictures of Republican - and particularly Tea Party - rallies, they're all almost completely lily-white...whereas Democratic rallies are truly multiracial, multicultural, multiethnic. One side rejects the differences - and the other side truly embraces them.

Click to expand...

I see you not only believe in spreading the wealth, but spreading the blame as well. Well I have news for you buddy. 20% of blacks will end up in prison in some point in their life, which means 80% of them won't. Do those 20% somehow just have it sooooo much worse then everyone else? Things don't just change overnight in this country, you are right. But its damn 50 years later, eventually that excuse is going to wear itself thin, no? I think you need to have a re-reawakening and realize that there are numerous other factors besides racism that are keeping blacks in poverty. In fact, I'll even go to say that racism is probably the least significant of those factors at this point. It certainly isn't as significant as drugs, single parent homes, and culture are.

Re: Nearly 20 Percent Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Se...

head of joaquin said:

This is such perfect teabaggery, I couldn't have asked for more.

Conservatives are hostile to science, scientists and science funding. And you blame librals. It's so typical.

Who wants to cut science funding in the Congress? Come on, you can say it out loud.

Click to expand...

Which side came up with abomination that is post-modernism? Hint, it isn't the teabaggers.