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Thread: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No historical fact you presented was disputed. Merely your ridiculous claim that the US seeks to destabilize the ME, which you utterly failed to demonstrate.
    I disagree..
    The proof is right there and you admitted it. The history is correct but you purposely are mischaracterizing it.
    Installing and propping up ruthless dictators every 10 or 20 years (who their own people hate for their oppression and human rights violations ) supplying them with weapons to attack other nations, but then when it's convenient and we have no more use for them, we orchestrate THEIR downfall doesn't tend to stabilize anything anywhere. That's why we're generally despised in the whole area.

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Since WW1 US actions in the ME have been destabilising.
    Given the distinct lack of war between Israel and Egypt since the 1970s, I would say that is not correct. However, that is a discussion of effect. What the individual above is arguing is intent. The United States (according to him) seeks to control the oil supply and simultaneously to threaten its' own ability to guarantee access to the oil supply .

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    now that's ironic.
    Empty, dismissive rhetoric is no substitute for providing facts.

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Given the distinct lack of war between Israel and Egypt since the 1970s, I would say that is not correct. However, that is a discussion of effect. What the individual above is arguing is intent. The United States (according to him) seeks to control the oil supply and simultaneously to threaten its' own ability to guarantee access to the oil supply .
    Ignoring what we've done in iran, iraq, libya, egypt, afghan..etc..for generations..and you admitted it's true..(you had no choice, of course..I showed you the facts).and claiming that no war between egypt and israel proves we aren't destabilizing the middle east is...childish and disingenuous...
    anyone over the age of about 16 knows what's going on..are you over 16?

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Kersey View Post
    I disagree..
    The proof is right there and you admitted it. The history is correct but you purposely are mischaracterizing it.
    Installing and propping up ruthless dictators every 10 or 20 years (who their own people hate for their oppression and human rights violations ) supplying them with weapons to attack other nations, but then when it's convenient and we have no more use for them, we orchestrate THEIR downfall doesn't tend to stabilize anything anywhere. That's why we're generally despised in the whole area.
    You are confusing "being despised" with "lack of stability".


    tell you what - you tell me. which is less stable: Egypt under Mubarak, or Egypt under the Brotherhood? Easier version: which was less stable: The middle east during the 1950s 60s and 70s when nation-on-nation war was a constant occurrence, or the middle east in the 90s once we turned the arab states into client states, and the single big conflict was us v Iraq and then isralies and palestinians bickering? Was Egypt more likely to go to war with Israel and Saudi Arabia under Nasser? Or Mubarak after we decided to start supporting him?

    For that matter, which is less stable: Jordan, under our ally the king, or Gaza, where the Palestinians rule themselves?

    Which is less stable: Saudi Arabia, whom we have poured massive resources into? Or Yemen, where we haven't?


    The single example of Iraq actually makes my argument - the only reason we supplied Saddam is because we wanted to stop the destabilizing force of Shia Islamist Revolution from spreading to other Shia-dominant areas (such as Bahrain). We backed Saddam at the time because that was the stabilizing option in the ME.


    You'll get no argument from me that our policy of supporting abusive governments is a large part of why we are hated. Agreed. But arguing that dictators aren't generally capable of controlling their space doesn't match the historical record. It's a relatively short term (it only lasts for a generation or three) solution; but it is a solution.

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    de nada (I'll check that link again later - I missed it the first time --
    can you be more specific?)
    ...
    I originally flagged it as a QUOTE a couple of weeks ago for you and the other cast members so you might have already seen it ... comment #207 ... with love.

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    More likely Iran with the third largest army in the world will rush to aid Libya. The problem there would be a possible strike by Israel. Either way it is business as usual in the good ol' Middle East.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Kersey View Post
    Ignoring what we've done in iran, iraq, libya, egypt, afghan..etc..for generations.
    No one is ignoring anything. You are arguing against a strawman, apparently because this is the one argument you learned, and you don't know how to switch tack.

    We started supporting the Egyptian Government in 1974. Prior to that, they went to war regularly with both their fellow Arab States and Israel. After that, they went to war with nobody, and instead became a partner in hunting down Islamist terror groups.

    Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not the Middle East. You are confusing "Muslim" with "Middle Eastern".

    In Iraq we supported Saddam Hussein to stop a destabilizing force (Shiite Revolution), and then opposed him when he became a destabilizing force.

    In Libya we absolutely went in and helped the locals take out a psycho who was intent on doing to Benghazi what Assads' daddy did to Hama. I have no problem with that.

    and you admitted it's true..(you had no choice, of course..I showed you the facts).
    dude. You argued that we intentionally destabilized the middle east. The evidence presented never indicated whatsoever that it has ever been U.S. Foreign Policy to destabilize the Middle East, and instead went to great lengths to make an argument against U.S. intervention in the 1993 destabilizing attack by Saddam Hussein by making the U.S. look fickle. I could just as easily demonstrate that Vladimir Putin intends to invade China by posting pictures of him riding around bare-chested.

    and claiming that no war between egypt and israel proves we aren't destabilizing the middle east is...childish and disingenuous...
    Are you saying that they have gone to war since we started propping up the Egyptian government?

    anyone over the age of about 16 knows what's going on..are you over 16?
    Well I tell you what, Kersey. Give us your background in this field of discussion and I'll give you mine .

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are confusing "being despised" with "lack of stability".


    tell you what - you tell me. which is less stable: Egypt under Mubarak, or Egypt under the Brotherhood? Easier version: which was less stable: The middle east during the 1950s 60s and 70s when nation-on-nation war was a constant occurrence, or the middle east in the 90s once we turned the arab states into client states, and the single big conflict was us v Iraq and then isralies and palestinians bickering? Was Egypt more likely to go to war with Israel and Saudi Arabia under Nasser? Or Mubarak after we decided to start supporting him?

    For that matter, which is less stable: Jordan, under our ally the king, or Gaza, where the Palestinians rule themselves?

    Which is less stable: Saudi Arabia, whom we have poured massive resources into? Or Yemen, where we haven't?


    The single example of Iraq actually makes my argument - the only reason we supplied Saddam is because we wanted to stop the destabilizing force of Shia Islamist Revolution from spreading to other Shia-dominant areas (such as Bahrain). We backed Saddam at the time because that was the stabilizing option in the ME.


    You'll get no argument from me that our policy of supporting abusive governments is a large part of why we are hated. Agreed. But arguing that dictators aren't generally capable of controlling their space doesn't match the historical record. It's a relatively short term (it only lasts for a generation or three) solution; but it is a solution.
    Ok..I'm not going to run in circles with you or play word games over semantics.I already proved my point yesterday.
    I showed you the detailed history of the area and our role in destabilizing various countries on purpose so we could keep the area off balance which allows us to exert our influence. You even agreed the history was accurate...

    At this point I'm done with this and I'll refer you to Dave Fagan's quote; He summed it up very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Fagan
    When a country arms both sides in war, including chemical weapon precursors, and supplies satellite intelligence, it might be considered destabilizing, but on the other hand, in your world this is stabilizing.

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    Re: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    More likely Iran with the third largest army in the world will rush to aid Libya. The problem there would be a possible strike by Israel. Either way it is business as usual in the good ol' Middle East.


    Alright. In order to get to Libya, Iran has to fight it's way through Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel, and Egypt. How exactly do you see it pulling that off?

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