Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 61

Thread: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

  1. #51
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    10-30-14 @ 12:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,908

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The Freedom from Religion Foundation is a 501(c)(3) group that is arguing the IRS is unlawfully favouring church groups. A federal judge has agreed



    more on the suit from the FFRF site

    Response to the ruling from The Christian Post
    Really? because I don't see atheists or their organizations doing charity work....

    Also, you do realize that the church is funded via donations???

    Most atheists who embrace the religion of atheism are very immoral and selfish people....

  2. #52
    Sage
    Somerville's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    On an island. Not that one!
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:23 AM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,839

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Really? because I don't see atheists or their organizations doing charity work....

    Also, you do realize that the church is funded via donations???

    Most atheists who embrace the religion of atheism are very immoral and selfish people....
    Oh it could be because you don't read about stuff you don't like or there might be other reasons.

    October 2011
    the Foundation Beyond Belief issued a formal statement indicating that their offer to raise up to a half million dollars through the American Cancer Society's Relay for Life program was recently tabled when the American Cancer Society declined to allow the Foundation to create a national Relay team as other non-profits have done.
    Another Religious Charity Turns Away Atheists » Dispatches from the Culture Wars

    We asked the director… whether or not it would be permissible for us to wear t-shirts with our organization’s logo on them. She told us that we were not welcome to volunteer at the Spartanburg Soup Kitchen because they are a “place of God,” and she knew “our motivations.”
    Even after the group said they wouldn’t wear the shirts, the kitchen still said no to their offer to help. So to their credit, the Upstate Atheists decided to take action on their own and are putting together care packages for the homeless people in that area and distributing those packages themselves.

    Actually there are some studies showing atheists and agnostics more moral and less selfish than the faith-ridden
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  3. #53
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    WOW! You aren't even making an attempt to refute what I posted. Don't you get it? YOU make a claim that religious organisations must pay property taxes, I point to a SCOTUS decision that says otherwise. YOU correct me by quoting California's law on property tax. I then paste in a paragraph from Texas legal code that says all the preacher man has to do is pray on the property and it becomes tax exempt. YOU then ask, "What's your point?" !!!

    A fine example as to why some conversations go nowhere.
    LOL. Their you go , twisting my words again to try and support your phony claim. Churches pay property tax on property tax that is not exempted. Your false claim was that they do not pay any property tax. I have laid it out for you, then you laid it out for yourself and now you try to spin things back to your first false claim.

    What you posted about a preacher praying on his property is fine and dandy, good rule to because if he didn't he wouldn't be using the property as a religious place. Which is of course required and listed in plain sight, right at the top of the Texas law you posted. But being you missed it when you posted it and you missed it when I posted it, I'll post it again for you. Here is the requirement to meet tax exemption status: "(1) the real property that is owned by the religious organization, is used primarily as a place of regular religious worship, and is reasonably necessary for engaging in religious worship;"

    What part of "regular" do you not understand?

    Then lets look at the next line that you didn't see when you posted it and didn't see when I posted it the first time. Here it is: "(2) the tangible personal property that is owned by the religious organization and is reasonably necessary for engaging in worship at the place of worship specified in Subdivision"

    That doesn't even come close to the nonsense you posted which was this: "So all the preacher has to do is hold a "ceremony or meditation, education and fellowship" on the property all by his little self or with just his family members and the property is tax exempt". Sorry, a preacher just can't go walking around praying at different locations and receive tax exemptions everywhere he prays. But you probably knew that, you are just willing to grasp at any straw within reach in a very lame attempt to prove a false and phony point that you and others have dreamed up to trash religion.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  4. #54
    Educator Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-02-13 @ 01:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    704

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Don't know why you haven't heard about this problem. It has been around for a while



    Basically there is a subset of Christians which demands exemption from taxes that other groups must pay while objecting to an IRS regulation that calls for political neutrality from groups receiving religion-based exemptions.

    Easy solution -- pay your taxes and speak your mind.
    Exactly. If they are political lobbies, then they can be classified the same way other political lobbies are.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  5. #55
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Exactly. If they are political lobbies, then they can be classified the same way other political lobbies are.
    I'm not exactly sure what "political lobbies" are. How about you and two of your buddies discussing politics at a coffee shop, reaching a conclusion on a candidate then recommending to someone in the next booth to vote for who your group thought best. At the same time, lets also say all three of you have been out of work for 18 months thanks to Obamacare and have very little income and owe no income tax. And because you are broke, you sleep at night on a city park bench.

    Are you and your buddies a "political lobby"? Should you be allowed to vote because you paid no property tax and paid no income tax?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  6. #56
    Educator Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-02-13 @ 01:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    704

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what "political lobbies" are. How about you and two of your buddies discussing politics at a coffee shop, reaching a conclusion on a candidate then recommending to someone in the next booth to vote for who your group thought best. At the same time, lets also say all three of you have been out of work for 18 months thanks to Obamacare and have very little income and owe no income tax. And because you are broke, you sleep at night on a city park bench.

    Are you and your buddies a "political lobby"? Should you be allowed to vote because you paid no property tax and paid no income tax?
    No, my and my buddies would each be individuals sharing our opinions with each other. If we wanted, we could fill out a lot of paper work to create a new legal entity for the purpose of lobbying or engaging in political action. Then, as the founding (and only) members of this new entity, we could hire ourselves to work for it, then we could go about raising funds as a PAC from which to pay ourselves while we work to promote our political beliefs.

    The thing I keep seeing with right-wingers is that they don't know the difference between an individual and a collective or external legal entity, such as a state or a corporation or, in this case, a PAC.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  7. #57
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    No, my and my buddies would each be individuals sharing our opinions with each other. If we wanted, we could fill out a lot of paper work to create a new legal entity for the purpose of lobbying or engaging in political action. Then, as the founding (and only) members of this new entity, we could hire ourselves to work for it, then we could go about raising funds as a PAC from which to pay ourselves while we work to promote our political beliefs.

    The thing I keep seeing with right-wingers is that they don't know the difference between an individual and a collective or external legal entity, such as a state or a corporation or, in this case, a PAC.
    Good answer, if that was the only possible way to create a "political lobby". And that's the thing I keep seeing about left wingers, they don't see anything outside the image they want the world to look like. Just as a reminder, people doing various types of "political lobbing" are not confined to a group as you have outlined. The press does political lobbying all the time, consumers as well, various segments of the private sector, and any other collection of people or business with any thought that may involve a politician. That's why I first said I wasn't sure exactly what it was you were talking about.

    But if you in fact want all "political lobbies" treated the same, good luck. You will be stepping on a lot of toes you probably didn't think about.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  8. #58
    Educator Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-02-13 @ 01:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    704

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Good answer, if that was the only possible way to create a "political lobby". And that's the thing I keep seeing about left wingers, they don't see anything outside the image they want the world to look like. Just as a reminder, people doing various types of "political lobbing" are not confined to a group as you have outlined. The press does political lobbying all the time, consumers as well, various segments of the private sector, and any other collection of people or business with any thought that may involve a politician. That's why I first said I wasn't sure exactly what it was you were talking about.

    But if you in fact want all "political lobbies" treated the same, good luck. You will be stepping on a lot of toes you probably didn't think about.
    Either way, right-wing churches are more political than religious. In fact, you could say that right-wing politics in the US has become a political religion. There's no reason to pretend that some of these organizations are churches, when they're actually just extensions of the Republican Party.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  9. #59
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Either way, right-wing churches are more political than religious. In fact, you could say that right-wing politics in the US has become a political religion. There's no reason to pretend that some of these organizations are churches, when they're actually just extensions of the Republican Party.
    What qualifications do you posses to quantify that "right wing churches are more political than religious"? Do you attend such a church on a regular basis? Do you spend quite a bit of time with people that attend such a church? Or do you get your "facts" from some reporter with no or little use for religion?

    If I had to take a guess where you got your info from, it would be some hit piece from the press or at least other leftists.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  10. #60
    Educator Grendel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-02-13 @ 01:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    704

    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    What qualifications do you posses to quantify that "right wing churches are more political than religious"? Do you attend such a church on a regular basis? Do you spend quite a bit of time with people that attend such a church? Or do you get your "facts" from some reporter with no or little use for religion?

    If I had to take a guess where you got your info from, it would be some hit piece from the press or at least other leftists.
    From talking to right-wingers who attend those churches. They're confusing nationalism and religion. I guess because both patriotic pride and religious ecstasy feel good, and to bitter people so does self-righteous anger, so they mix it all together to keep teh flock pretty well addicted to the sermons.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •