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Thread: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

  1. #41
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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    After all the talk about separation of church and state, I think I'd prefer a separation of church and politics.

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    When one argues for a specific viewpoint, it helps to have reality on your side. Some do and some don't, ItAin'tFree



    Now this one should upset a few folks who are convinced that President Obama is really a secret Muslim intent on establishing shariah law in this country. It sure as hell pisses me off
    It really does help "to have reality on your side" when one argues a specific viewpoint. You made a false claim that churches don't pay property taxes. That is just not so. While most of their properties may receive an exemption, churches do pay property taxes. Just as I have said all along. Here is some of what is written in California board of Equalization Publication Form 48:"PROPERTY THAT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR ANY EXEMPTION
    Contrary to common belief, some property owned by religious organizations does not qualify for any property tax exemption Typical examples are explained below
    Vacant, unused, or excess property
    Property that is vacant, unused, or excess on the January 1 property tax lien date is not eligible for exemption for the following reasons:• Revenue and Taxation Code section 206 requires exclusive use of property for religious worship purposes.• Revenue and Taxation Code section 207 requires exclusive use of property for religious worship and school activities.• Revenue and Taxation Code section 214, subdivision (a) requires exclusive use of property for the organization’s exempt purpose Section 214, subdivision (a)(3) requires use of the property for the actual operation of an exempt activity.The intent to use the property at a later date does not make the property eligible The assessor cannot allow an exemption until the January 1 lien date after a qualifying use begins In this context, “excess property” is property in excess of what your organization reasonably needs or is using for your exempt purposes and activities"


    And that's just some of it and that's just from one state. Churches always have and always will pay the property tax they owe. They do not get a 100% across the board exemption on property tax as people trying to spread there spite against religion would like others to believe.


    If you want Freedom From Religion, I'd suggest forming your own country somewhere. Because I don't know where in the world you would find such a location.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  3. #43
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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    It really does help "to have reality on your side" when one argues a specific viewpoint. You made a false claim that churches don't pay property taxes. That is just not so. While most of their properties may receive an exemption, churches do pay property taxes. Just as I have said all along. Here is some of what is written in California board of Equalization Publication Form 48:"PROPERTY THAT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR ANY EXEMPTION
    Contrary to common belief, some property owned by religious organizations does not qualify for any property tax exemption Typical examples are explained below
    Vacant, unused, or excess property
    Property that is vacant, unused, or excess on the January 1 property tax lien date is not eligible for exemption for the following reasons:• Revenue and Taxation Code section 206 requires exclusive use of property for religious worship purposes.• Revenue and Taxation Code section 207 requires exclusive use of property for religious worship and school activities.• Revenue and Taxation Code section 214, subdivision (a) requires exclusive use of property for the organization’s exempt purpose Section 214, subdivision (a)(3) requires use of the property for the actual operation of an exempt activity.The intent to use the property at a later date does not make the property eligible The assessor cannot allow an exemption until the January 1 lien date after a qualifying use begins In this context, “excess property” is property in excess of what your organization reasonably needs or is using for your exempt purposes and activities"


    And that's just some of it and that's just from one state. Churches always have and always will pay the property tax they owe. They do not get a 100% across the board exemption on property tax as people trying to spread there spite against religion would like others to believe.


    If you want Freedom From Religion, I'd suggest forming your own country somewhere. Because I don't know where in the world you would find such a location.

    At least you are beginning to add qualifications to your earlier statement. How many churches own business/investment properties? How many churches claim religious use for properties that actually provide business income.

    Citing law from California, that known librul cesspool, means nothing about the tax laws in other states.

    Buried deep in Texas law regulating tax exemptions is a nice out for churches and preachers
    For the purposes of this section, "religious worship" means individual or group ceremony or meditation, education, and fellowship, the purpose of which is to manifest or develop reverence, homage, and commitment in behalf of a religious faith.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, U bet you would.
    You only want white churches to get tax exemptions. Because I said so.

    We're doing this thing again, right? This thing where we get to decide what other people believe? Because I know how much you love that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #45
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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    At least you are beginning to add qualifications to your earlier statement. How many churches own business/investment properties? How many churches claim religious use for properties that actually provide business income.

    Citing law from California, that known librul cesspool, means nothing about the tax laws in other states.

    Buried deep in Texas law regulating tax exemptions is a nice out for churches and preachers
    No, come on now. Don't twist my words, twist yours. As I have said all along, Churches pay property taxes. No qualifications to that. Do your own research as to how many churches own business/investment properties or property that doesn't meet the exemption requirements. But you won't find what you are looking for in spiteful articles designed to make people not capable of thought think that churches get an advantage that others don't.

    You did get something right though about California and it's laws not applying to other states. But you can check out, at you own pace, the other 49. You will find something similar in them.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    No, come on now. Don't twist my words, twist yours. As I have said all along, Churches pay property taxes. No qualifications to that. Do your own research as to how many churches own business/investment properties or property that doesn't meet the exemption requirements. But you won't find what you are looking for in spiteful articles designed to make people not capable of thought think that churches get an advantage that others don't.

    You did get something right though about California and it's laws not applying to other states. But you can check out, at you own pace, the other 49. You will find something similar in them.
    and nothing about that little bit found in Texas law - Gee, I wonder why
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    and nothing about that little bit found in Texas law - Gee, I wonder why
    Well, I don't know. But when it comes to churches paying property taxes in Texas here is what it says (from the article you linked):
    "(a) An organization that qualifies as a religious organization as provided by Subsection (c) is entitled to an exemption from taxation of:

    (1) the real property that is owned by the religious organization, is used primarily as a place of regular religious worship, and is reasonably necessary for engaging in religious worship;

    (2) the tangible personal property that is owned by the religious organization and is reasonably necessary for engaging in worship at the place of worship specified in Subdivision (1);

    (3) the real property that is owned by the religious organization and is reasonably necessary for use as a residence (but not more than one acre of land for each residence) if the property:

    (A) is used exclusively as a residence for those individuals whose principal occupation is to serve in the clergy of the religious organization; and

    (B) produces no revenue for the religious organization;"


    So once again, churches are only exempted from paying property tax under certain restricted conditions. I gave you an example in California, you supported what I have said from the start, with your example of Texas. Everybody gets that you have no use for religion. That's up to you.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Well, I don't know. But when it comes to churches paying property taxes in Texas here is what it says (from the article you linked):
    "(a) An organization that qualifies as a religious organization as provided by Subsection (c) is entitled to an exemption from taxation of:

    (1) the real property that is owned by the religious organization, is used primarily as a place of regular religious worship, and is reasonably necessary for engaging in religious worship;

    (2) the tangible personal property that is owned by the religious organization and is reasonably necessary for engaging in worship at the place of worship specified in Subdivision (1);

    (3) the real property that is owned by the religious organization and is reasonably necessary for use as a residence (but not more than one acre of land for each residence) if the property:

    (A) is used exclusively as a residence for those individuals whose principal occupation is to serve in the clergy of the religious organization; and

    (B) produces no revenue for the religious organization;"


    So once again, churches are only exempted from paying property tax under certain restricted conditions. I gave you an example in California, you supported what I have said from the start, with your example of Texas. Everybody gets that you have no use for religion. That's up to you.

    OK, maybe the bolded word wasn't big enough for you to read - here is the section from the Texas law covering religious organisation exemptions
    For the purposes of this section, "religious worship" means individual or group ceremony or meditation, education, and fellowship, the purpose of which is to manifest or develop reverence, homage, and commitment in behalf of a religious faith.
    So all the preacher has to do is hold a "ceremony or meditation, education and fellowship" on the property all by his little self or with just his family members and the property is tax exempt.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    OK, maybe the bolded word wasn't big enough for you to read - here is the section from the Texas law covering religious organisation exemptions


    So all the preacher has to do is hold a "ceremony or meditation, education and fellowship" on the property all by his little self or with just his family members and the property is tax exempt.
    What's your point? People should not be allowed to pray, alone? The way you hate religion, I would have thought that's the way you would have preferred it. Guess I would have been wrong on that one.

    I'm not aware of any religion that requires group worship, are you? Other than those that worship government of course, and it gets property tax exemptions by the way.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    What's your point? People should not be allowed to pray, alone? The way you hate religion, I would have thought that's the way you would have preferred it. Guess I would have been wrong on that one.

    I'm not aware of any religion that requires group worship, are you? Other than those that worship government of course, and it gets property tax exemptions by the way.

    WOW! You aren't even making an attempt to refute what I posted. Don't you get it? YOU make a claim that religious organisations must pay property taxes, I point to a SCOTUS decision that says otherwise. YOU correct me by quoting California's law on property tax. I then paste in a paragraph from Texas legal code that says all the preacher man has to do is pray on the property and it becomes tax exempt. YOU then ask, "What's your point?" !!!

    A fine example as to why some conversations go nowhere.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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