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Thread: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

  1. #31
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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    LOL.

    Everybody in America gets a tax exemption of some sort if not many sorts.

    So the taxpayers pay how many bills for these church groups? What, what's that? Yes, of course. Zero. They pay their own bills.
    These church groups get how much cash from the government? What, what's that? Yes, of course. Zero. They pay their own bills.
    They pay their own bills? Churches pay for their own fire protection, police, roads and bridges, schools for their children? - although some churches are actually receiving taxpayer funding to support their own little church schools

    It doesn't really matter to me if these church groups are tax exempt or not. But it does matter to a lot of people, especially those that get help from a church.
    Oh yeah, some churches do help people. like the Mormons, who according to the article have spent something like 0.1% on charity, though there are others like the United Methodist Church which has averaged 29% of their funding going to charitable actions. Overall, American churches spend about one fourth of their income on charity.

    Am I the only one that bothered to read the disclaimers in the article?
    No, you are not. did you also read the bit about the difficulty of obtaining data because so many churches don't release spending information to the public? Could it be that SOME churches don't want their members to know about the mansions, private jets and vacations their ministers are enjoying on church funds?

    Preachers of LA' Trailer Teases With Lavish, Dramatic Lifestyles of Six Mega-Pastors
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I'm sure that's your hope; but in fact traditional black churches have always been scrupulous in not endorsing candidates. They simply preach the gospel of love and tolerance, which doesn't accord with conservative hate and scapegoating.

    The people to look out are the rightwing fundies. They are endorsing rightwing loons all the time. They need to be taught a lesson with a nice big tax bill for all their ill gotten gains.
    I didn't day all black churches. Hell, I didn't even say most.
    What the hell, Im sure black churches will be exempted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Ah - the race attack - how novel.

    Gee, do you think the Alliance Defense Fund has many black members?


    and just to stop any attempted reply along the lines of "What should we expect from the socialist, he only promotes race war anyway" I would fully support pulling the tax exemption from any traditionally black church which acted in the same manner as the rightwing white churches.
    Yeah, U bet you would.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #34
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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    They pay their own bills? Churches pay for their own fire protection, police, roads and bridges, schools for their children? - although some churches are actually receiving taxpayer funding to support their own little church schools

    Oh yeah, some churches do help people. like the Mormons, who according to the article have spent something like 0.1% on charity, though there are others like the United Methodist Church which has averaged 29% of their funding going to charitable actions. Overall, American churches spend about one fourth of their income on charity.

    No, you are not. did you also read the bit about the difficulty of obtaining data because so many churches don't release spending information to the public? Could it be that SOME churches don't want their members to know about the mansions, private jets and vacations their ministers are enjoying on church funds?

    Preachers of LA' Trailer Teases With Lavish, Dramatic Lifestyles of Six Mega-Pastors
    Of course they pay their own bills. Lets see, if the church bus fills up with gas the gas tax gets paid so there your roads and bridges. Most fire and police protection comes from property tax so whatever the local community taxes the church at, they pay what they owe. Churches don't have children, their members do. Why would the church owe a school tax (unless it was part of a property tax)? Plus lets not even pretend like churches are not involved in fund raising activities for the said type organizations donating both time and money to those very causes.

    You sure do worry about what a church does with it's own money. Why is that? It's obvious you want nothing to do with a church so why not mind your business and leave theirs to them? Plus lets not lose sight of the fact that the people that wrote the article were at least honest enough to admit they could not get enough data to tell how much money a church had or what they did with it.

    Churches are under no more obligation to release their financial information to the public than you are. Could it be that you don't want other people to know all about your business or how you spend your money?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, U bet you would.
    Why wouldn't I support such a penalty for a traditionally black church? I'm an atheist, I don't think any religious group should be getting tax exemptions but I will accept a law which says a church, a temple, a mosque or a synagogue received tax exemptions but I do not think that any profit-seeking business owned by a religious group should be given any such exemptions. I do not think preachers, priests, imams or rabbis should have exemptions on the benefits provided by their religion.

    So believe what you wish but that don't mean it means the requirements of reality.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Of course they pay their own bills. Lets see, if the church bus fills up with gas the gas tax gets paid so there your roads and bridges. Most fire and police protection comes from property tax so whatever the local community taxes the church at, they pay what they owe. Churches don't have children, their members do. Why would the church owe a school tax (unless it was part of a property tax)? Plus lets not even pretend like churches are not involved in fund raising activities for the said type organizations donating both time and money to those very causes.

    You sure do worry about what a church does with it's own money. Why is that? It's obvious you want nothing to do with a church so why not mind your business and leave theirs to them? Plus lets not lose sight of the fact that the people that wrote the article were at least honest enough to admit they could not get enough data to tell how much money a church had or what they did with it.

    Churches are under no more obligation to release their financial information to the public than you are. Could it be that you don't want other people to know all about your business or how you spend your money?

    Churches and other religious groups are NOT paying property taxes.

    I don't get the same exemptions as are provided to religious groups so the comparison is invalid. I do notice that you haven't actually answered some of the earlier questions so . . .
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Churches and other religious groups are NOT paying property taxes.

    I don't get the same exemptions as are provided to religious groups so the comparison is invalid. I do notice that you haven't actually answered some of the earlier questions so . . .
    Churches pay the property taxes they owe, just as I said. To imply they are not paying any property tax is a complete falsehood. If they have investment property, they pay property tax on such.

    No you don't get the same exemptions as a church. You also don't get the same exemptions as a farmer, a start up business, car manufacture. railroad, red cross, person with 16 kids, or most likely even your next door neighbor.

    I answered your "questions" that were really hit statements. Everybody gets it. You are a miserable person who has no use for any church. But that's your business. A churches business is theirs.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Churches pay the property taxes they owe, just as I said. To imply they are not paying any property tax is a complete falsehood. If they have investment property, they pay property tax on such.

    No you don't get the same exemptions as a church. You also don't get the same exemptions as a farmer, a start up business, car manufacture. railroad, red cross, person with 16 kids, or most likely even your next door neighbor.

    I answered your "questions" that were really hit statements. Everybody gets it. You are a miserable person who has no use for any church. But that's your business. A churches business is theirs.
    When one argues for a specific viewpoint, it helps to have reality on your side. Some do and some don't, ItAin'tFree

    On May 4, 1970, the US Supreme Court upheld property tax exemptions for churches, declaring them to be in accordance with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the US Constitution. In the majority opinion written by Chief Justice Warren E. Burger in Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York, the Court stated in its 8-1 decision that the exemptions did not equate with "the 'establishment' of a religion [that] connoted sponsorship, financial support, and active involvement of the sovereign in religious activity," all of which are prohibited
    Now this one should upset a few folks who are convinced that President Obama is really a secret Muslim intent on establishing shariah law in this country. It sure as hell pisses me off
    Faith-Based Debate: Obama Signs Order on Funds for Churches

    When President George W. Bush authorized federally-funded partnerships between the government and faith-based groups nearly a decade ago, he opened a new chapter in the debate over separation of church and state.

    Bush's so-called faith-based initiative green-lighted taxpayer dollars to local churches and other religious organizations to help them expand their social services in local communities. It's an arrangement President Obama supports as well.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Of course they pay their own bills. Lets see, if the church bus fills up with gas the gas tax gets paid so there your roads and bridges. Most fire and police protection comes from property tax so whatever the local community taxes the church at, they pay what they owe. Churches don't have children, their members do. Why would the church owe a school tax (unless it was part of a property tax)? Plus lets not even pretend like churches are not involved in fund raising activities for the said type organizations donating both time and money to those very causes.

    You sure do worry about what a church does with it's own money. Why is that? It's obvious you want nothing to do with a church so why not mind your business and leave theirs to them? Plus lets not lose sight of the fact that the people that wrote the article were at least honest enough to admit they could not get enough data to tell how much money a church had or what they did with it.

    Churches are under no more obligation to release their financial information to the public than you are. Could it be that you don't want other people to know all about your business or how you spend your money?
    That's fine if they don't want to pay taxes. THEN THEY NEED TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND NOT ENDORSE CANDIDATES, EVEN BY TRYING TO SNEAK THE INFO INTO THEIR SERMONS.

    They get the tax break because they don't get involved with politics. They need to follow the law, or they need to pay taxes.

  10. #40
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    Re: IRS faces lawsuit for failing to enforce church electioneering ban

    Churches shouldn't be tax exempt period. To think, they wouldn't be getting sued now.

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