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Head Start Cuts Services For More Than 57,000 Children Due To Sequestration

Kal'Stang said:
My parents once thought much the same of kindergarten and as such I never went to it, nor did any of my other siblings. Yet everyone accepts kindergarten as being helpful now.
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There was a time when the parents (or more likely mom), actually taught the kids a good bit of the basic stuff that Kindergarden and pre-school 'teach' them now. You know, it use to be what they call 'parental responsibility.' Of course that R word is a horrible thing nowadays, and why bother when you can have someone else do it for you.
 
Kal'Stang said:
My parents once thought much the same of kindergarten and as such I never went to it, nor did any of my other siblings. Yet everyone accepts kindergarten as being helpful now.
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I never went either, I was borderline age-wise and the school booted me up into first grade after the first couple of days of kindergarten.
 
Kal'Stang said:
There are many people that believe that the government should get rid of public schooling altogether. While I don't know if JayDubya is of that mind his statement reads towards that inclination.
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Nothing he typed out should have led anyone to the conclusion you came up with. Nothing.

"many people" have every right in the world to think that government should get out of the school business. It's their tax dollars funding the schools too.
 
The chief question at the bottom of all of this is: "Does this mean that Head will be here in the morning now?" Nothing pejorative here. Just askin...
 
Kal'Stang said:
My parents once thought much the same of kindergarten and as such I never went to it, nor did any of my other siblings. Yet everyone accepts kindergarten as being helpful now.
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Kindergarten, for me, was 1/2 a day - it was to introduce the idea of an organized school day to young children so when they started to attend full time, they would adjust easier. We had occasional activities with building blocks to learn how to count and did things involving letters and numbers to become familiar with them. Mainly, it was social, follow the rules, work together, listen to the teacher. (that was almost 30 years ago)

Today - Kindergartners learn how to:
Write their name.
Spell small words.
Add.
Read.
Use a computer...etc
They'll even do homework and take tests.

In fact - my kids were doing that in Pre-school (not Head Start, though. Even though it's all the same. We paid for ours, Head Start covers their cost)

Problems: Pre-school actually does boost children ahead, but soon after, education levels out and it doesn't necessarily ensure their quality of education will continue to be above. It's just becoming early kindergarten. . .and our daughter complained in K that she was just repeating everything she already knew, because a lot of students in K didn't go to Pre-school, so they're worlds apart, ability wise.

about 8 years ago, on a different forum, a K teacher complain that many students can't 'write their name, read their name, use scissors, recognize half of the letters in the alphabet, recognize all the colors and numbers' - and thus, they weren't ready for K, and, it just made teaching K that much more difficult.

a mother responded to her - shocked - saying 'I send my kid to K so you can teach her all of that, I didn't know I was expected to teach my kid those basics beforehand'

See - things have changed quite a lot.
 
Arbo said:
There was a time when the parents (or more likely mom), actually taught the kids a good bit of the basic stuff that Kindergarden and pre-school 'teach' them now. You know, it use to be what they call 'parental responsibility.' Of course that R word is a horrible thing nowadays, and why bother when you can have someone else do it for you.
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Mom also use to stay home and not work. That is no longer possible in today's society. Particularly for those parents who are poor. Now a days both parents must work in order to just make ends meet. Headstart and Kindergarten are programs that allow both parents to work in order to take care of those children and also still let them be responsible enough to make sure their children are educated. If you want to talk about irresponsible parents then you should be hollering at those parents that refuse to put thier kids in headstart and kindergarten and yet still have both parents working. That hurts a childs education far more than parents that put their kids through both of those programs.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Today - Kindergartners learn how to:
Write their name.
Spell small words.
Add.
Read.
Use a computer...etc
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My kids were doing all the above due to the work their mother and I did prior to them even hitting the level of pre-school. Unfortunately we have a world full of parents that do not realize their first priority is their kid(s).

Problems: Pre-school actually does boost children ahead, but soon after, education levels out and it doesn't necessarily ensure their quality of education will continue to be above.
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Very much the case. My kids constantly complain about the slow pace in school, even in AP classes, where they have to wait for the slower kids to catch on.

a mother responded to her - shocked - saying 'I send my kid to K so you can teach her all of that, I didn't know I was expected to teach my kid those basics beforehand'
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Ah, like I said above, many parents that do not have their priorities right.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Mom also use to stay home and not work. That is no longer possible in today's society.
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My wife has never HAD to work. I have taken on extra work to ensure it. There were many times where she wanted to and did. But even when I was in the navy and had a second job and she was working, we still managed to teach our kids beyond the kindergarden level before they ever hit that age.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
Nothing he typed out should have led anyone to the conclusion you came up with. Nothing.
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I tend to look at the big picture. :shrug: That is why I asked him a question and didn't just flat out say that is what he was wanting.

ItAin'tFree said:
"many people" have every right in the world to think that government should get out of the school business. It's their tax dollars funding the schools too.
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I never once said that people don't have the right to think that way and nothing in my post said otherwise. When you make a statement such as you did in the first part of your post here I would suggest not doing the same thing yourself. Looks a bit hypocritical. ;)
 
Arbo said:
My wife has never HAD to work. I have taken on extra work to ensure it. There were many times where she wanted to and did. But even when I was in the navy and had a second job and she was working, we still managed to teach our kids beyond the kindergarden level before they ever hit that age.
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Good for you! No, i'm not being sarcastic, I really do applaud parents that are able to do that. However not everyone has that ability or the luxury of not having Mom not work.
 
Arbo said:
My kids were doing all the above due to the work their mother and I did prior to them even hitting the level of pre-school. Unfortunately we have a world full of parents that do not realize their first priority is their kid(s).



Very much the case. My kids constantly complain about the slow pace in school, even in AP classes, where they have to wait for the slower kids to catch on.



Ah, like I said above, many parents that do not have their priorities right.
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I think it comes down to the idea that "you have to be a teacher to 'know' how to teach your children - anything"

That shocked mother never thought about teaching her kid how to use a pair of safety scissors, and didn't read books, or play with letter-blocks and so on? Meanwhile, I never even considered it 'teaching' - we just did games and stuff and they learned things along the way.

I think the basics of parental values are taught/learned by example, and in our country our examples are often lazy parents so a lack of awareness and involvement just trickles down.

In essence - it comes down to 'playing with your kids' which is something that many parents just don't even bother with.

Oh - and when fathers excuse things like 'my wife/their mom should do that' - and they don't bother either, that doesn't make it any better. Parents have to take responsibility - employed or not. You can't just be lazy and expect the other to make up where you choose to slack.

That's like my husband, when we had our first child, never brushing her teeth when she was a baby. He'd say, "I figured you did all that just fine without me." :roll:
 
Kal'Stang said:
Good for you! No, i'm not being sarcastic, I really do applaud parents that are able to do that. However not everyone has that ability or the luxury of not having Mom not work.
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Perhaps I was not clear, my wife did work during those years. We still got done what responsible parents are supposed to do. To say 'but I had to work' is no excuse, for anyone.
 
... it supplies many of its 960,000 children with two hot meals a day, transportation to and from school and basic medical care. When these services are eliminated, it also affects parents, who often must find difficult-to-afford day care services ...
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low income kids are already from families eligible for food stamps. so, why is it essential to provide them with two meals. i believe the family food stamp allotment does not diminish because the kid(s) also receive publicly funded food at school/head start
those same kids from low income families are also eligible for medicaid to cover their medical needs. as with the meals, the head start medical services only duplicates what is already available to the child
and no where in the thread was there discussion of the actual learning that is supposed to take place. well, that does happen. however, by fifth grade, any academic advantage which was provided by head start attendance, is no longer evident. so, there is no long term academic benefit to head start, the original premise used to launch the program
what we really have is a free day care system for poor families. so, let the parents either stay how with their kids, pay for day care, or don't have kids they cannot afford to raise
rather than curtail head start, the expensive program should be eliminated. it can demonstrate no substantial benefits to the kids it was supposedly intended to serve
 
This always seemed like a good program for the Federal Government to help organize. Of course, what gets organized should be paid for by the local and state governments.
 
Kal'Stang said:
So we shouldn't educate our young? Go back to the days when only the elite could afford an education?
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It has been made clear that there is no long time academic advantage to Head Start. It is therefore a babysitting program that the government should not be paying for.
 
Arbo said:
Perhaps I was not clear, my wife did work during those years. We still got done what responsible parents are supposed to do. To say 'but I had to work' is no excuse, for anyone.
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Work is only part of the equation. But did your wife work two jobs at the same time as you worked two jobs? As many poor folks do? Was she a single mother during that time? Does everyone have the capacity to teach? (not talking about the knowledge...talking about capacity IE patience, understanding of how to teach..etc etc) You are just looking at it from your POV of your singular experiance and capacity. Not everyone is up to the task.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Work is only part of the equation. But did your wife work two jobs at the same time as you worked two jobs? As many poor folks do? Was she a single mother during that time? Does everyone have the capacity to teach? (not talking about the knowledge...talking about capacity IE patience, understanding of how to teach..etc etc) You are just looking at it from your POV of your singular experiance and capacity. Not everyone is up to the task.
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Moving the goal posts eh?

The reality is that most people are not up to the task of having children, but unfortunately we can not stop them. Thus arrive at a world full of idiots having more idiots.
 
Arbo said:
Moving the goal posts eh?
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Nope. No moving goal posts here. I've stated the same thing before in post 36. Just phrased it differently since you obviously didn't catch it.

Arbo said:
The reality is that most people are not up to the task of having children, but unfortunately we can not stop them. Thus arrive at a world full of idiots having more idiots.
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That may be. But unless you think Eugenics is a good idea or sterlization is a good idea (in which case we will never agree and we should just agree to disagree and leave this conversation) then we should do what is good for society and provide the best education for ALL and all of society. Before education was available for all what kind of society did we have? Take a look through history and see what it was like before education became available to all and you will have your answer. It wasn't pretty. For thousands of years we had ignorance, abuse of power by those that were able to afford an education, and the greatest achievement for over a thousand years was the horse drawn carriage and a few of the more wealthy individuals actually had a "sort of" indoor plumbing. And yet when education became widely available what happened? An explosion of inventions and ideas and our current technologically advanced society that sprang up in just a couple of hundred of years.

I am all for any and ALL educational programs. Even ones that some people (or even the majority of people) think are useless. For the simple fact that if it helps even one person then it is worth it imo. People keep blaming things on ignorant people...yet they keep wanting to find ways to make or keep people more ignorant. The height of hypocrisy imo.

And yes...I ranted a bit here. Sorry, couldn't help it.
 
I think all 57,000 kids should be sent on vacation with Obama.

I bet the program will get its money back right quick.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Work is only part of the equation. But did your wife work two jobs at the same time as you worked two jobs? As many poor folks do? Was she a single mother during that time? Does everyone have the capacity to teach? (not talking about the knowledge...talking about capacity IE patience, understanding of how to teach..etc etc) You are just looking at it from your POV of your singular experiance and capacity. Not everyone is up to the task.
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Then they shouldn't have kids.
 
I think taxpayers need to be made aware of some real facts about Head Start.

Head Start was part of LBJ's Great Society. Today it costs the taxpayers $8000.00 per child enrolled each year. Since its enactment 40 some years ago the taxpayers have put out over 180 billion in funding.

At the beginning of the year the HHS released a report on Head Start. Within the report were the results of a study (ordered by Congress) that has been ongoing for a few years following 5000, 3-4 year olds enrolled in Head Start and then following their progress through the third grade. The report reveals that Head Start failed to improve the cognitive abilities of children, their access to health care, and the parenting practices of participants. The federal researchers also discovered worse peer relations and lower teacher-assessed math ability for Head Start children.

These failures are the very things the People were told this program would correct. Now you aren't going to hear about this study in the MSM, but do yourself a favor and take the time to read the pdf. Supporting something that sounds good or makes you feel good is hardly worth 180 billion dollars when the damn thing didn't work.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/opre/hs_impact_study_final.pdf
 
Kal'Stang said:
then we should do what is good for society and provide the best education
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That would start with getting the federal government out of education, for it has been going downhill ever since they became involved.

For thousands of years we had ignorance, abuse of power by those that were able to afford an education,
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How does that differ from current times?

if it helps even one person then it is worth it imo.
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I have never fallen for the 'one person' belief. Helps, saves, whatever. It is used all the time. I think it is wrong headed, as most often the cost vs. return is not worth many of the things done.

Start forcing people to be responsible, by removing all the handouts, and people will become more responsible. Quit with all the programs to give a hand out, and work on stuff that helps give a hand up.
 
vesper said:
I think taxpayers need to be made aware of some real facts about Head Start.

Head Start was part of LBJ's Great Society. Today it costs the taxpayers $8000.00 per child enrolled each year. Since its enactment 40 some years ago the taxpayers have put out over 180 billion in funding.

At the beginning of the year the HHS released a report on Head Start. Within the report were the results of a study (ordered by Congress) that has been ongoing for a few years following 5000, 3-4 year olds enrolled in Head Start and then following their progress through the third grade. The report reveals that Head Start failed to improve the cognitive abilities of children, their access to health care, and the parenting practices of participants. The federal researchers also discovered worse peer relations and lower teacher-assessed math ability for Head Start children.

These failures are the very things the People were told this program would correct. Now you aren't going to hear about this study in the MSM, but do yourself a favor and take the time to read the pdf. Supporting something that sounds good or makes you feel good is hardly worth 180 billion dollars when the damn thing didn't work.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/opre/hs_impact_study_final.pdf
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Ah hmm.

A bit bothered that they're tabulating forms of correction for the children that the parents give.

"Parent spanked in last week. . ."
And categorizing "Parenting style" by . . . authoritative, negative, positive . . . When is this the government's business?
They analyzed parents with depressive behaviors?

...In fact - they're oddly obsessed with 'authoritative parenting' and 'spanking' - seeings as how 'spank' came up 63 times in the document by search alone.

Apparently - sending your kid to Head Start means you spank them less :roll: Well I see the benefit. What in the HELL? YeT - I don't see what the kids LEARNED.

And - you know what? If it costs too much, they need to END the program for 3 year olds. Problem solved. Kindergarten has always started at age 5. Pre-school, thus, is age 4. No reason to pay THAT MUCH money for daycare for 3 year olds.
 
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