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Thread: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I'm ok with it particularly with the parents consent. This also gives the man more sexual liberty without the result of likely parentless child(ren) that society has to pay for.
    this!
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    That's not accurate. Whether it be white or black, educating the poor in family planning and not having more children than they can handle and afford is nothing new.

    She did favor eugenics, but not as racism. Many people did. Even the Supreme Court upheld laws to sterilize mentally handicapped people. This also was her sale's pitch to legalize birth control.

    She opposed abortion and instead promoted birth control (which was illegal in most of the USA), so I think she'd be a pro-life hero. But I understand the Catholic Church hates her for promoting legalizing birth control and that all of pro-life slogans and values originate from the Catholic Church. Since the Catholic Church hates her, so then must most radical pro-lifers.

    In your logic, any drug store that sells condoms is engaging in genocide.
    Sanger believed that black folks were incapable of fending for themselves, without government assistance. If that's not racism, what is?
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes... parents and guardians sterilize their children or wards who are mentally handicapped all the time.. it is nothing new and often the state acts as an intermediary helping the parents/guardians get the legal work done. There are a few news stories about this on the web, but usually it gets no media attention at all.

    http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/view...&context=josnr

    The scary part is that there are over 14 US states that still have the forced sterilization laws on the books, laws put in place long ago by eugenics fanatics. Granted at the moment those laws are not being enforced, but still scary that they are there and can be used at any minute.

    But as long as it is a case by case valuation and not a blanket order like under the American eugenics laws, then I dont see the problem at all. There is a reason that someone else is the guardian of an over 18 year old.. they are unable to care or choose for themselves.
    Yeah .... That paper seems to be outlining the exact opposite of what you claimed

    <<<Finally, prior to 2000, only one study mentioned
    sterilization issues of two male mentally handicapped
    individuals (Elkins et al., 1988). However, in 2000,
    Carlson, Taylor, & Wilson designed a survey study
    to specifically look at awareness in legal and medical
    organizations of male sterilization using surgery or
    hormonal control. This study was the first study
    to attempt to evaluate any aspect of sterilization of
    male mentally handicapped individuals and thus
    raises awareness to the lack of knowledge in this area.
    However, this study was very poorly designed with very
    unclear and inconclusive results. In addition, a low
    response rate, no reliability or validity of the survey
    reported, and a small sample size (n=51) make any
    results difficult to generalize to a broader population.>>>


    <<<Finally, in a descriptive study by Elkins et al., a
    Michigan clinic received 20 parental requests for
    sterilization (1988). After each parent consulted
    with an ethics committee to discuss alternatives to
    sterilization, state laws and other support issues, only
    5 cases were recommended for sterilization. Thus, this
    study demonstrates how increased parental support
    can decrease requests for sterilization.>>>

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Wow, certainly a "MAN'S VIEW." Rather than him having a 10 minute vasectomy, she can just have 29 abortions at the cost of those or take 750 at $40 each extreme hormone pills. But OMG not mess with the man's sperm (that he doesn't want)!
    or he could be pointing to the finality of vasectomy ....

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    If the girlfriend is the only one he's having sex with, couldn't she have an IUD in place? That way neither of them loses their fertility.

    On the other hand, a vasectomy at age 36 is not unusual; lots of guys get them around that age or so once they're done having their families.

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Wow, certainly a "MAN'S VIEW." Rather than him having a 10 minute vasectomy, she can just have 29 abortions at the cost of those or take 750 at $40 each extreme hormone pills. But OMG not mess with the man's sperm (that he doesn't want)!
    Do you honestly think he understood the options he had in front of him to not have any more children? Do you honestly think he actually implied anything involving sperm with his comment? Taking a pill to avoid pregnancy is a hell of a lot better than removing the bodily functions of either party and the pills can still easily be controlled and administered by others. Maybe I'm crazy but I would rather avoid harm than cause it.

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Where is the utility in keeping it? He and his girlfriend have restricted access to each other, and are currently monitored whenever they are together to prevent them conceiving another child they are incapable of caring for in any way.
    All this seems like a huge overkill to me, why not put his girlfriend on the pill if condoms are too complicated?

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    He was completely freaked out by the arrival of the baby, he said in court that he wanted to have sex, but not to have children. He won't necessarily have sex only with his girlfriend.
    I understand that his equally freaked girlfriend has a learning disability too, and if he's still fertile, who is going to force her to take a pill every day? Or give her a monthly injection?
    The only reason it went to court is that he doesn't have the mental capacity to make a legally binding decision.
    With an IQ of 40, he's operating at a similar intellectual level as a dolphin or a chimp. He can carry out simple tasks with training and supervision and can even be somewhat independent, but he's never going to live an unsupported life. Helping on a market stall is a step or two down from asking if someone would like fries with their meal. It's not a career, but for him it's an achievement.
    Having the op allows him a "normal" sex life without the devastating risk (for him) of unwanted children. He can't make a binding choice but a judge can establish what he wants, and choose for him.
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    This an ethical dilemma that is way too complicated to judge unless you have all the facts and have interviewed all the players involved. The issues relating to the sexuality of the intellectually impaired are incredibly difficult to resolve for carers, for the authorities and especially for the individuals concerned.

    As a family we have wrestled with these issues and the one thing, the only thing, I can say about the topic without fear of contradiction is that there are no solutions that apply 100% across the board in all situations. That said, I wouldn't be prepared to say whether the judge got it wrong or right, and anyone here who thinks they are qualified to do so is full of it.
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    I'm not seeing the problem? His legal guardians pushed for it to be done, likely because they don't want to have to keep taking responsibility for new babies. It's not like a new social policy was created by the judge - this applies to one person.

    I also don't see anything wrong with sterilizing someone who isn't mentally capable of consenting to sex and therefore is not aware that sex can create children. Not only that, they are not mentally capable of raising a child. At least with sterilization their sexual acts won't produce unwanted children.

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