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Thread: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

  1. #111
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au



    Has Pandora's box been opened for a subclass of society that isnt allowed to breed in the UK's future? A six year old is smart enough to know the basic jist of birds and the bees. So I want to know if this man agreed to the viscetomy or not. Just because he said "I dotn want to have another kid" doesnt mean "Disable my seed from being able to spread forever." I want to know his exact intention. If they can do this for "personal best interest" why not cut off rapists balls for the "best interest of society"? Just sayin'.

    "I dont want to have a kid" could mean he was trying to appease the judge and saying "I wont have any more I promise". So what is the context? Or did the judge say, "We are going to do a special operation on your balls that will make it so you cant have kids anymore more. Is this what you want?" Im worried the guy might have been confused and the judge let his personal standards get in the way and would like to know more about this.
    I agree that the government should not be allowed to sterilize people if it decides them unfit for whatever reason. However, I do think this issue is a bit more complicated. If he has the mind of a 6-year old child, like a 6-year old child he can not truly give consent. So who is to make the choice? The parents? That would make sense to me I suppose. But then again, say a child is dying and parents refuse to take the child to the hospital. There is a thing as neglect--parents cannot just do whatever they want with their child. So if the parents refused, I can see the case being made for this being an example of neglect. It is further complicated by the fact that he has a job. That suggests he has a mind capable of consenting.

    I don't think this sets some precedent. It seems more like a gray area case.
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  2. #112
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I agree that the government should not be allowed to sterilize people if it decides them unfit for whatever reason. However, I do think this issue is a bit more complicated. If he has the mind of a 6-year old child, like a 6-year old child he can not truly give consent. So who is to make the choice? The parents? That would make sense to me I suppose. But then again, say a child is dying and parents refuse to take the child to the hospital. There is a thing as neglect--parents cannot just do whatever they want with their child. So if the parents refused, I can see the case being made for this being an example of neglect. It is further complicated by the fact that he has a job. That suggests he has a mind capable of consenting.

    I don't think this sets some precedent. It seems more like a gray area case.
    I dont think the UK is evil it just pays to fill the OP with a bit of flair :p I do not see society allowing this to propagate to a point where all stupid people arent allowed to breed. I would have done the same thing If I happened to see a story like this going on in the US.
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Giving someone with learning difficulties medication is fraught with ethical and legal problems in the absence of their ability to give a legal consent.
    I'm not following the logic here, at all. Clearly there are less ethical and legal questions involved than giving someone surgery under the same conditions that is likely irreversible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Denying her the ability to procreate is of a different order.
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    I have a relative with very severe autism and this has never been an issue, if she sneezes too much her parents give her antihistamines, any legal impediments never occurred to them. What law requires informed consent? I'm just perplexed about why this would have greater ethical and legal issues then permanent sterilization.
    Indeed, the argument is just plain bizarre and confusing

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    It's not hard to follow. Informed consent is a fundamental part of medical ethics. A Doctor or nurse treating a person who lacks the capacity to give such a consent enters a potential minefield. Being seen to be acting in the interests of the patient, and not the convenience of yourself or of others, is vital. Surgery, even if reversible, is a major event, and obviously needs greater laegal overview, but prescribing and administering medication is less clearcut. In my example, I suggested that medicating a heart condition or an infection could be seen as acceptable practice since the patient's life or health will be directly damaged by not intervening.
    Administering Birth Control without consent is qualitatively different. A relative physically giving the drug isn't constrained in the same way, but the Dr. who prescribes it is.
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It's not hard to follow. Informed consent is a fundamental part of medical ethics. A Doctor or nurse treating a person who lacks the capacity to give such a consent enters a potential minefield. Being seen to be acting in the interests of the patient, and not the convenience of yourself or of others, is vital. Surgery, even if reversible, is a major event, and obviously needs greater laegal overview, but prescribing and administering medication is less clearcut. In my example, I suggested that medicating a heart condition or an infection could be seen as acceptable practice since the patient's life or health will be directly damaged by not intervening.
    Administering Birth Control without consent is qualitatively different. A relative physically giving the drug isn't constrained in the same way, but the Dr. who prescribes it is.
    Im just scared its a Romeo and Juliet scenario with the parents controlling everything and never letting them see eachother unless he goes through with operation. That his words "I dont want children" doesnt actually mean hes not planning on it instead of "Take away my ability to have kids please". How do we knwo his consent isnt coerced by hanging his girlfriend over his head as a carrot? How do we know he isnt saying, "I don't want kids" so that he can just finally get to see his girlfriend that these people keep away from him? Id like to know the full context of this story instead of a few snippets of quotes but I have already repeated this multiple times so ill stop saying it over and over.
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  7. #117
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Spriggs05 View Post
    His partner could just have an abortion or take the morning after pill. The parents just don't want the financial obligation of raising another child.
    My main problem is that it shouldn't be national news. The largest it should have gotten was the local paper/flyer, not even the county paper.
    A vasectomy is considerably less invasive and dangerous than an abortion. It's also a permanent solution, whereas repeated pregnancies requiring repeated terminations could have severe physical effects on his "partner", who also has mental issues. It is the simplest solution, one that satisfied everyone involved, including the man himself. Beyond that, it's actually nobody else's business.

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    A vasectomy is considerably less invasive and dangerous than an abortion. It's also a permanent solution, whereas repeated pregnancies requiring repeated terminations could have severe physical effects on his "partner", who also has mental issues. It is the simplest solution, one that satisfied everyone involved, including the man himself. Beyond that, it's actually nobody else's business.
    You deduced all this from just a handful of quotes eh? What if you interviewed the guy and it turns out hes smarter than his tested IQ. What if his words were misconstrued so that a little quote appears to make it seem a certain way out of context. I dont get how its so easy for you people to decide these things on such few words.
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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It's not hard to follow. Informed consent is a fundamental part of medical ethics. A Doctor or nurse treating a person who lacks the capacity to give such a consent enters a potential minefield.
    Ugh, the case we are discussing, involving the man under going the vasectomy, lacks the ability to give consent. It''s why your insistence there is a distinction between the two is leaving everyone confused

    Surgery, even if reversible, is a major event, and obviously needs greater laegal overview, but prescribing and administering medication is less clearcut.
    1) Reversing a vasectomy isn't always successful

    2) how is administering a pill less clear cut than performing surgery that may be irreversible?

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    Re: UK judge OKs sterilisation of man with mental age of six year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Americans don't limit free speech based on nationality, is why.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

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