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Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic [W:212]

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

And from conservatism, liberalism, socialism, etc. There would be one thing people ought to be cured of and that is Fox Newsism (an affliction of people who watch fox news all the time and confuse partisan news reporting for actual unbiased news reporting) ;)

I always get you confused with Peter Grimm for some reason.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Not every ****ing thread is about abortion.

yeah...some threads are about racism, religion and/or homosexuality. ;)

I would bet that if someone went through and deleted all the threads on or regarding those 4 topics, it would get rid of half the threads on the forum.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

There is no homosexual instinct in animals. I didn't realize liberals were so anti science.

I knew someone would bring up the gay penguins. You realize that they are now ex-gay penguins right?

So if we're going to use "gay animals" as evidence that homosexuality is "natural" then we can conclude that homosexuality can be "cured". Not only that, since we're using irrational animal behavior to justify human morality now is cannibalism a moral and civil right now too? After all, animals eat their young and engage in cannibalism.

No it doesn't. Animals aren't mounting other animals because of human feelings and motivations. Animals react irrationally to outside stimuli. There is no homosexual instinct in animals.

There's one pretty large thing you're forgetting: humans are animals. And homosexual behavior is found in all species of animals. The fact that it's natural doesn't make it right. For me, the act of love isn't immoral. Eating a person and loving a man (or woman) seem fairly different to me in terms of moral implications. If a man can only love another man, I think it would be immoral for him to be prevented from doing so. I see no harm in it, only good.

While Roy and Silo are the cutest and funniest example of homosexual animals, I concede that it is not the best example. The best examples are the studies that have been done which find homosexual behavior to be found in every species they study. The fact that you think humans aren't animals for some reason doesn't have an ounce of relevance for most people. You know, those of us who "don't shun science."
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

No one is talking about the study since there is no link to it. Makes it difficult. Hypothesis are not facts. Stating there is no gay gene is incorrect.

So Evolution is just a working hypothesis correct?

There is no gay gene (8 studies actually)

Whether there is a gay gene or not is entirely irrelevant to whether homosexuality is a psychological disorder. You keep repeating these same refuted points, which is kinda sad.

It's entirely relevant. Again, I find it laughable that someone who claims people don't understand genetics doesn't know anything about Psychology. Homosexuals want to normalize their abnormal behavior. The only way they can do this is by claiming "genetic determinism". "It's natural to be gay. I was born this way. Everyone must accept it, even if it goes against Natural Law."

If it's a condition that is psychological it can be cured. If not cured, then at least controlled through intensive therapy. If the gay penguins can go straight (and animal behavior is now the measuring stick according to all the liberals in this thread) then why can't humans? :)

Homosexuality and procreation are two entirely different things. Many homosexuals do procreate. This entirely destroys your argument.

Men cannot conceive. A female doesn't carry sperm.

If you want to justify some Frankenstein experiment that isn't natural, but in actuality an irrational act because the people involved are psychologically disordered, that's your business.

Link to the study, then we can discuss it. Without the study, it is impossible to have an educated discussion about it. However, the little bit in the linked article does not preclude the presence of a genetic component to orientation.

8 studies actually
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

There's one pretty large thing you're forgetting: humans are animals. And homosexual behavior is found in all species of animals. The fact that it's natural doesn't make it right. For me, the act of love isn't immoral. Eating a person and loving a man (or woman) seem fairly different to me in terms of moral implications. If a man can only love another man, I think it would be immoral for him to be prevented from doing so. I see no harm in it, only good.

While Roy and Silo are the cutest and funniest example of homosexual animals, I concede that it is not the best example. The best examples are the studies that have been done which find homosexual behavior to be found in every species they study. The fact that you think humans aren't animals for some reason doesn't have an ounce of relevance for most people. You know, those of us who "don't shun science."

We've been over this

Stop elevating animals to the level of humanity. Human beings are not unthinking irrational creatures that act entirely on instinct and outside stimuli. There is NO homosexual instinct in animals. Irrational animal behavior is not a measuring stick to justify acceptable behavior in a rational and civil society.

"homosexual behavior" in animals is for reasons that are not rational. Dominance. Clashing and conflicting outside stimuli. You're acting animals know what they are doing is right or wrong or something. Or out of some fairy tale love like in a Disney cartoon. It's all symbolism. Not science.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

No not really. You keep flipping generic terms and specific events and act like they are the same. Extinctions exist and are naturally occurring ....but when specifically caused by human actions such as the dodo they are unnatural extinctions.

the building of structures is naturally occurring...beehives/anthills etc....but a skyscraper is something specific to humankind. It doesn't exist outside of humanity.

Deforestation is a generic term but when it's specifically caused by human influences it's no longer a natural event. That specific event is human caused.

The pairing of same sex and same sex acts is naturally occurring. It's natural.

Once again it's not my definition...


Hah, man, I don't know how long I can chase you around the yard.

You say that, for example, extinction exists in nature, but when it is man made it is "unnatural extinction"... OK.

You say that, for example, deforestation exists in nature, but when it is man made it is "unnatural deforestation"... OK.

You say that, for example, building exists in nature, but when it is man made it is "unnatural building"... OK.

But then you say that homosexuality exists in nature, SO when it is man made it is "natural homosexuality"? ... Okaaaaay...

In other words, you are full of it.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Hah, man, I don't know how long I can chase you around the yard.

You say that, for example, extinction exists in nature, but when it is man made it is "unnatural extinction"... OK.

You say that, for example, deforestation exists in nature, but when it is man made it is "unnatural deforestation"... OK.

You say that, for example, building exists in nature, but when it is man made it is "unnatural building"... OK.

But then you say that homosexuality exists in nature, SO when it is man made it is "natural homosexuality"? ... Okaaaaay...

In other words, you are full of it.

I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

The whole purpose of the word "natural" is to create a distinction between human beings and everything else. It's a pretty basic concept.

The word nature is derived from the Latin word natura, or "essential qualities, innate disposition", and in ancient times, literally meant "birth".[1] Natura was a Latin translation of the Greek word physis (φύσις), which originally related to the intrinsic characteristics that plants, animals, and other features of the world develop of their own accord.

It is often taken to mean the "natural environment" or wilderness–wild animals, rocks, forest, beaches, and in general those things that have not been substantially altered by human intervention, or which persist despite human intervention. For example, manufactured objects and human interaction generally are not considered part of nature, unless qualified as, for example, "human nature" or "the whole of nature". This more traditional concept of natural things which can still be found today implies a distinction between the natural and the artificial, with the artificial being understood as that which has been brought into being by a human consciousness or a human mind.

You keep flip flopping between generic terms and specific events.

Extinctions in the abstract are natural. They occur in nature outside of human influence. When human beings cause the extinction of specific species or multiple species it's generally referenced as man caused as opposed to naturally occurring. It's not a natural event by definition. the same with deforestation.

Homosexuality is not man made. It's an act...it's a behavior. In the generic sense it's natural.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

The whole purpose of the word "natural" is to create a distinction between human beings and everything else. It's a pretty basic concept.





You keep flip flopping between generic terms and specific events.

Extinctions in the abstract are natural. They occur in nature outside of human influence. When human beings cause the extinction of specific species or multiple species it's generally referenced as man caused as opposed to naturally occurring. It's not a natural event by definition. the same with deforestation.

Homosexuality is not man made. It's an act...it's a behavior. In the generic sense it's natural.

Where is the natural instinct in animals to engage in same sex behavior for pleasure, or "love". Animals engage in such behaviors irrationally. Dominance. Confused outside stimuli.

If "gay penguins" can be cured and go straight then why not humans?
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Where is the natural instinct in animals to engage in same sex behavior for pleasure, or "love". Animals engage in such behaviors irrationally. Dominance. Confused outside stimuli.

If "gay penguins" can be cured and go straight then why not humans?

why do they need to be "cured"? Why do people care what others want to do? If based on your views they are sinners why exactly do you need to punish or stop them from sinning. What are we going to do with people that commit infidelity? That should be next. last I checked that's a biggie.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

There are 5 people all giving me the same response so I'll just focus on this one

There are 2 major strawmen in your arguments

1) There is no gay gene. Evidence has just been found through a scientific study of identical twins (same DNA) that further supports this hypothesis. It is strong and compelling evidence. I find it absolutely amazing that you would dare claim someone doesn't understand genetics while completely ignoring the genetic data contained within the study.

Nobody in this thread wants to talk about the study and for good reason. It's further evidence that homosexuality is a psychological disorder. That homosexuality can be cured. Human beings are born with productive organs that have specific biological purposes. Beyond emotion and not wanting to hurt gay people's feelings, homosexual sex isn't natural. Claiming it's natural because animals do it (for reasons that have nothing to do with love, sexual attraction ect) is a very poor argument. Animals also engage in cannibalism.

I'll talk about the study...Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic | OrthodoxNet.com Blog

READ the damn thing! It is a "meta-study," meaning it simply collated and examined other studies to present a general statement. Nothing in the article indicates that any of the studies used conducted an in-depth coding sequence of all participants. In fact, it only states that the studies examined pairs of mature twins to see how many exhibited paired homosexuality and how many exhibited homosexuality of a single member of the pair.

Then PRESUMING THAT ALL IDENTICAL TWINS HAD IDENTICAL DNA they concluded that since in most of the twins examined only a single member of each pair displayed homosexuality, it must therefore have no genetic basis.

I have provided you with a scientific study of the genetic codes of new-born identical twins. That study proved that many identical twins have differences in their genetic code at birth, due to somatic and other frequently occuring genetic mutations. THIS IS THE ONLY STUDY OF THE GENETIC STRUCTURE OF IDENTICAL TWINS ADDRESSING MUTATIONAL CODING. In addition, several prior studies show different genetic direction markers on how each individual twin will develop characterisitcs after birth. I'll post it AGAIN since you obviously ignored it the first time:

Identical Twins Differ Genetically | LiveScience

This 2012 study shows that somatic and other gene mutations occur at a very high rate, demonstrating that identical twins often have different genetic structures.

I am not even going to address your second point because it is inane at it's face. Homosexual behavior patterns occur in many species besides humankind. It does not matter your justification, the mere fact that they do occur in "nature" among creatures who do not have the capacity of "free will" means that it is NOT A CHOICE!

We do not know why humans and other creatures display this tendency. I personally think it is a natural method of population control, one of many Mother Nature uses to decrease overpopulation in species. Whether it is genetic, hormonal, epigenetic, or a combination of who knows what...it IS a natural occurrence.

In any case, your study clearly proves nothing.
 
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Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

So Evolution is just a working hypothesis correct?

Evolution is a theory not a hypothesis. That is a very large, unsubtle difference.

There is no gay gene (8 studies actually)

Link to these studies. Bet not a single one says there is no genetic component to orientation.


It's entirely relevant. Again, I find it laughable that someone who claims people don't understand genetics doesn't know anything about Psychology. Homosexuals want to normalize their abnormal behavior. The only way they can do this is by claiming "genetic determinism". "It's natural to be gay. I was born this way. Everyone must accept it, even if it goes against Natural Law."

Damn you can bring the stupid. Being genetic in nature does not mean it is not a psychological disorder, nor would a lack of genetic factors means that it is. What homosexuals want is mostly just to be free to live their life. Assigning motives to any disparate group like gays is stupid. Genetic determination is not even an argument used in favor of gay rights except possibly by a few who, like you, do not understand the issues.

If it's a condition that is psychological it can be cured. If not cured, then at least controlled through intensive therapy. If the gay penguins can go straight (and animal behavior is now the measuring stick according to all the liberals in this thread) then why can't humans? :)


Men cannot conceive. A female doesn't carry sperm.

If you want to justify some Frankenstein experiment that isn't natural, but in actuality an irrational act because the people involved are psychologically disordered, that's your business.

So explain why gay people have had children throughout history. Since they have, your argument, as usual, fails.

8 studies actually

Funny how you keep refusing to link to the studies, but claim to know what they show.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Where is the natural instinct in animals to engage in same sex behavior for pleasure, or "love". Animals engage in such behaviors irrationally. Dominance. Confused outside stimuli.

If "gay penguins" can be cured and go straight then why not humans?

Let's backtrack here:

Why is natural/not natural important to this discussion? Guns aren't natural, so you can't have any. Silly, right? Similarly, killing is natural, therefore you have a right to do it indiscriminately, right? How come I can't kill your dog? Killing for meat is natural.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Evolution is a theory not a hypothesis. That is a very large, unsubtle difference.

There is no gay gene. Call it whatever you want. The Identical Twin study (identical DNA) studies is further genetic proof.

Link to these studies. Bet not a single one says there is no genetic component to orientation.

Are you claiming the person in the article is lying? Is the article making these studies up? You're aware that the people who wrote these papers are "pro-gay" right? They had to acknowledge the evidence. If you think the studies are made up then show me the proof.

Damn you can bring the stupid. Being genetic in nature does not mean it is not a psychological disorder, nor would a lack of genetic factors means that it is. What homosexuals want is mostly just to be free to live their life. Assigning motives to any disparate group like gays is stupid. Genetic determination is not even an argument used in favor of gay rights except possibly by a few who, like you, do not understand the issues.

Personal attack. You're supposed to be a moderator.

Gays are forcing their way of life on the rest of society. If they just wanted to be free to live their lives, they wouldn't be trying to get special rights to change the definition and purposes of institutions. They would create their own institutions. Their own customs. Their own traditions. Not intruding on institutions and demanding that we all cater to their demands. They want to force their morality that engaging in homosexual sex is natural and acceptable which goes against the morality of The Bible and against Natural Law. Just because they are insane doesn't mean they get to drag the rest of us into insanity. Homosexual sex is a sin and an abomination against nature and against God.

I understand that Hollywood and movies have made a lot of people think gay sex is cool and trendy and everything. That doesn't make it true. Pop Culture and President Obama do not determine my morality.

So explain why gay people have had children throughout history. Since they have, your argument, as usual, fails.

What gay people? What children? With who? You're projecting.

Funny how you keep refusing to link to the studies, but claim to know what they show.

It states quite clearly these studies were done in New Zealand and Australia. If you believe they are a hoax. Prove it.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

There is no gay gene. Call it whatever you want. The Identical Twin study (identical DNA) studies is further genetic proof.
Then link the study. This article is not proof.

Are you claiming the person in the article is lying? Is the article making these studies up? You're aware that the people who wrote these papers are "pro-gay" right? They had to acknowledge the evidence. If you think the studies are made up then show me the proof.
Journalists routinely misinterpret scientific research because they aren't scientists and don't really understand it.
Gays are forcing their way of life on the rest of society. If they just wanted to be free to live their lives, they wouldn't be trying to get special rights to change the definition and purposes of institutions. They would create their own institutions. Their own customs. Their own traditions. Not intruding on institutions and demanding that we all cater to their demands. They want to force their morality that engaging in homosexual sex is natural and acceptable which goes against the morality of The Bible and against Natural Law. Just because they are insane doesn't mean they get to drag the rest of us into insanity. Homosexual sex is a sin and an abomination against nature and against God.

My religion says otherwise, and mine is better.

I understand that Hollywood and movies have made a lot of people think gay sex is cool and trendy and everything. That doesn't make it true. Pop Culture and President Obama do not determine my morality.
Why should I accept your morality if you wont accept mine?
What gay people? What children? With who? You're projecting.
Oh my god are you really under the impression that gay people never have children?
It states quite clearly these studies were done in New Zealand and Australia. If you believe they are a hoax. Prove it.

It is up to you to prove your assertions, not us.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

There is no gay gene. Call it whatever you want. The Identical Twin study (identical DNA) studies is further genetic proof.

Repeating lies does not make them magically true.

Are you claiming the person in the article is lying? Is the article making these studies up? You're aware that the people who wrote these papers are "pro-gay" right? They had to acknowledge the evidence. If you think the studies are made up then show me the proof.

How would you or I know if he is lying? Neither of us have seen the studies. I would point out both that his numbers in the article linked show a higher rate of both twins gay than can be accounted randomly, and more importantly even he states in the first paragraph that genetics may be a factor, albeit a minor one. So even the person you are claiming is offering proof, isn't.

Personal attack. You're supposed to be a moderator.

I am not a moderator, and that was not a personal attack.

Gays are forcing their way of life on the rest of society. If they just wanted to be free to live their lives, they wouldn't be trying to get special rights to change the definition and purposes of institutions. They would create their own institutions. Their own customs. Their own traditions. Not intruding on institutions and demanding that we all cater to their demands. They want to force their morality that engaging in homosexual sex is natural and acceptable which goes against the morality of The Bible and against Natural Law. Just because they are insane doesn't mean they get to drag the rest of us into insanity. Homosexual sex is a sin and an abomination against nature and against God.

I understand that Hollywood and movies have made a lot of people think gay sex is cool and trendy and everything. That doesn't make it true. Pop Culture and President Obama do not determine my morality.

Gays are not forcing any one to be gay. No one is trying to get special rights. The rest is painfully stupid nonsense.

What gay people? What children? With who? You're projecting.

I have a gay parent. It is not that uncommon. About 1 in 3 gay women have given birth to children, and about 1 in 5 gay men have fathered children.

It states quite clearly these studies were done in New Zealand and Australia. If you believe they are a hoax. Prove it.

I did not say they are a hoax, I said they are not sourced so we cannot see what they actually say. Reading comprehension is gud.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Additional question:

Where can I find a list of all of the Natural Laws? And what regulatory body oversees them?
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

I always get you confused with Peter Grimm for some reason.

shock.jpg

Shock Horror

No, totally different Peter, we are not even on the same..... well, the same "anything" ;)
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Where is the natural instinct in animals to engage in same sex behavior for pleasure, or "love". Animals engage in such behaviors irrationally. Dominance. Confused outside stimuli.

If "gay penguins" can be cured and go straight then why not humans?

Because possibly the penguins were not gay at all?

And humans are not like other animals. We are higher evolved, have more complex social and personal cultures than other animals.

You cannot compare our sexuality with animal sexuality. An animal is driven by instinct alone.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

This issue has never mattered to me, really. It seems, to me anyway, that it only serves to cloud the debate.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

This issue has never mattered to me, really. It seems, to me anyway, that it only serves to cloud the debate.

Exactly. Since when is "is it natural" the way we decide whether or not somebody has a right to do something?
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Well to be blunt I'll trust the science articles I've read by people that actually do that stuff for a living over someone on a forum.

And I'll take what God says about it over what anyone else, doctor or not, says!
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

I'm not sure where the disconnect is.

The whole purpose of the word "natural" is to create a distinction between human beings and everything else. It's a pretty basic concept.


So, by your definition, homosexual sex among humans is unnatural.





You keep flip flopping between generic terms and specific events.

Extinctions in the abstract are natural. They occur in nature outside of human influence. When human beings cause the extinction of specific species or multiple species it's generally referenced as man caused as opposed to naturally occurring. It's not a natural event by definition. the same with deforestation.

Homosexuality is not man made. It's an act...it's a behavior. In the generic sense it's natural.


You are just playing games now, right? You aren't this dense in real life, are you?
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Its not natural. The natural course of nature is to make children/young whatever you want to call it. Can't do it with homosexuality.

So blowjobs are unnatural?

I love the direction homophobes take. They want to control everybody, not just gay males. (though their fixation on gay sex is telling)
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

And I'll take what God says about it over what anyone else, doctor or not, says!

God says homophobes are condemned for judging gay people.

Romans 2:1.
 
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