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Thread: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million People

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Who is the "tax payer"? The individual working class American? The cash-laden investor/speculator who likely could easily afford to take responsibility for his own health care (but according to those who have studied the economics of our heathcare system these people either don't purchase health insurance or jump in and out of the system at-will or worse yet they hide their money in off-shore accounts? Not laying blame here; just stating facts.)? Or is it the large corporation who as we're learning more and more each day just how many of them are paying $0.00 in federal (corporate) taxes? And did I mention they, too, have another self-made tax problem that involes "repatriating" their earnings from abroad into the US financial system?

    Just who is the "tax payer" again? And when you find out who he or she is could you tell us what percentage of his/her gross earnings is taxed? I think the readers would be interested in your findings.
    You can go look up what % the total tax revenue the top 1%/5%/10%/20% pay in relation to what % of income they have. Go on, I'll be waiting.

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Then let's look at some truths concerning the healthcare law.

    Yes, individuals between 18-25 aren't rushing out to purchase health insurance. Why? Because the law allows them to remain on their parent's insurance until they reach age 26. Now, they had the CLASS Act, but they reasoned accurately enough, "Why take money out of my pocket to pay for a half-assed insuance plan from my low income job when I can remain on my parent's insurance and it won't cost them much more under a family health plan?".

    Folks who don't like the law try veryhard to phrase arguments on two fronts. Yours attempted to do just that arguing on the one hand that young people aren't buying health insurance while complaining on the other hand how the poor remain depended on entitlement program moreso because they want to not simply because they lack skills that would allow them to change their economic condition. Of course, that's not to excuse those who truly don't want to do for themselves. Nonetheless, I've seen both sides of the "needy" and can tell you for certain there are more people out there who want to do better for themselves than there are those who just want hand outs. However, that doesn't remove the fact that "the greedy" & "the needy" have both been a drain on this county. UUnfortunately, too many of you have come to the defense along a singular side. It is you who miss the truth because you fall on the side of whatever ideology you favor the most.
    Then what happens when you turn 27 and are a new time buyer in the health care market? Considering the premiums for this group are about to double, my guess is they still aren't going to want health insurance.

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    How is focusing on one issue going to help win elections for the Republican Party? It has not worked for the prohibition party
    Obamacare is a lot more than just preventing people from having access to quality healthcare. It's about jobs, the economy, the debt, the deficit, who lives and dies, how you live your life, taxes, big brother, and a laundry list of other issues. Don't think so? Sit down and try to read the thing.

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    You can go look up what % the total tax revenue the top 1%/5%/10%/20% pay in relation to what % of income they have. Go on, I'll be waiting.
    Nice abdication.

    The point I was trying to make is the Republican Party has shifted the goal post on a number of occasions on who really is "the taxpayer" in this country. First, it was the corporation. Then it was the small business owner. Then it was the investors of the wealth class. But they never make mention of the working class who although cumulatively don't pay as much in federal income taxes as the few multi-millionaires or billionaires in this country do, I would say that working class (middle-class Americans) paying upwards of 25% of their annual salary in federal income taxes does represent a large sum of taxes paid. And just to be sure, I didn't say "the poor". So, you can forget about countering with the old argument of "'X' amount of people in this country don't pay any federal income taxes". We already know about that.

    Collectively, the middle-class are the "taxpayers" in this country. I don't think anyone can argue against that.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    There you go again, even after I pointed it out to you.

    The "young people" argument is yours, not mine. That's twice you have done that.
    Only because you inferred that it is the young who know about ObamaCare but still won't buy insurance. Your post #7:

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Wondering what? Why Obama never tells the truth?

    Even the CBO of all places, released a report in May saying with Obamacare, over the next ten years at least 30 million people will be left uninsured in America. And who's Obama kidding besides the brain dead? Come the first of the year, 30 million people are not going to have health insurance overnight. It's more likely, they never get any. Report after report already show people currently eligible and know about it, don't sign up. They don't want it. Unless of course they have chosen a profession of food stamps and welfare. (I realize some people need help, I'm referring to those that have pretty much refused to work because Uncle Sugar provides).
    If we can be honest for a moment, people who "have pretty much refused to work because Uncle Sugar provides" aren't looking to purchase their own health care plan anyway for the very reason you stated - they know that as long as they are classified as poor and in some cases can demonstrate a medical need (i.e., pregnancy), they'll get Medicaid. But again, that's a state administration/authorization problem for the most part, not a federal problem despite the fact that the federal government sets the federal poverty limit. States can do a better job of setting the bar higher on that revolving door to state co-sponsored benefits. But more to the point, if you are "currently eligible" for ObamaCare coverage but you don't buy it, that signifies that these people have made a choice not to get coverage. To that, we both agree. However, it's very disingenuous to say that the only reason they aren't signing up for it is because "they don't want it". Truth is, no one working part-time or has a job where their pay barely meets their survival needs is going to spend their money on a health insurance policy if they can remain on their parent's insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Then what happens when you turn 27 and are a new time buyer in the health care market? Considering the premiums for this group are about to double, my guess is they still aren't going to want health insurance.
    Maybe not, but your own argument suggests their refusal to buy health insurance has more to do with cost than the make-up of a Bronze, Silver or Gold policy purchased through an "ObamaCare" regulated health insurance exchange whether said policy is purchased from their representative state or via the federal government. Income is the basis of their reluctance to buy health care coverage, not where they get insurance coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Obamacare is a lot more than just preventing people from having access to quality healthcare. It's about jobs, the economy, the debt, the deficit, who lives and dies, how you live your life, taxes, big brother, and a laundry list of other issues. Don't think so? Sit down and try to read the thing.
    I have and that's why I can say that much of the information out there about the law simply isn't true. It may not be a perfect law, but is the best law the nation was going to get under the circumstances. Frankly, I preferred the CLASS Act; atleast then everyone who participated would have bought into the system and reaped the benefits based moreso on their buy-in. But as long as new entrants are allowed to remain on someone else's policy during the interim benefit build-up period (5-years) before they can use said benefits, why purchase a policy? Better to save your money and use the benefit package you grew up with especially if mom and dad are still paying for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    They weren't rushing out to buy it prior to that being put in place.
    Again, why should they? It use to be that if you were 18 yo and went to college, you could remain on your parent's insurance policy until you either reached age 24, graduated or dropped out. But with ObamaCare, young people don't have to worry about it.

    So, no. They aren't rushing out to get insurance now nor were they doing so beforehand. Of course, why would they? There was no need.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-11-13 at 06:32 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Only because you inferred that it is the young who know about ObamaCare but still won't buy insurance. Your post #7:



    If we can be honest for a moment, people who "have pretty much refused to work because Uncle Sugar provides" aren't looking to purchase their own health care plan anyway for the very reason you stated - they know that as long as they are classified as poor and in some cases can demonstrate a medical need (i.e., pregnancy), they'll get Medicaid. But again, that's a state administration/authorization problem for the most part, not a federal problem despite the fact that the federal government sets the federal poverty limit. States can do a better job of setting the bar higher on that revolving door to state co-sponsored benefits. But more to the point, if you are "currently eligible" for ObamaCare coverage but you don't buy it, that signifies that these people have made a choice not to get coverage. To that, we both agree. However, it's very disingenuous to say that the only reason they aren't signing up for it is because "they don't want it". Truth is, no one working part-time or has a job where their pay barely meets their survival needs is going to spend their money on a health insurance policy if they can remain on their parent's insurance.
    That's what you keep "inferring" not me. People that refuse health insurance are across the full spectrum. Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, VA, Employer, whatever.

    Give it up. I didn't "inferred" what you accuse me of.

    All I can say to somebody making just a little to much money not to be on medicaid and not enough to afford health insurance (even with government help), don't blame me. I didn't vote for the SOB either time. So don't complain when you have to pay the tax and still don't have any health insurance. Good luck finding the money to pay the tax if you can't afford the insurance.

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    That's what you keep "inferring" not me. People that refuse health insurance are across the full spectrum. Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, VA, Employer, whatever.
    Now, you're just being foolish.

    The elderly won't turn down Medicare - an insurance program they've paid into all of their working lives.

    Poor people aren't going to refuse Medicaid.

    Military families aren't going to refuse Tri-Care.

    Veterans will seek their VA benefits.

    Employees will first sign up for their employer-sponsored insurance plan before opting out and the primary reason they do opt out is because their spouse has a better policy at a lower cost.

    As to the ObamaCare tax, as long as you have insurance through your employer OR via the exchange (state or federal) OR via a small business co-op OR you receive an approved waiver from the Sec. HHS, you have nothing to worry about.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Nice abdication.

    The point I was trying to make is the Republican Party has shifted the goal post on a number of occasions on who really is "the taxpayer" in this country. First, it was the corporation. Then it was the small business owner. Then it was the investors of the wealth class. But they never make mention of the working class who although cumulatively don't pay as much in federal income taxes as the few multi-millionaires or billionaires in this country do, I would say that working class (middle-class Americans) paying upwards of 25% of their annual salary in federal income taxes does represent a large sum of taxes paid. And just to be sure, I didn't say "the poor". So, you can forget about countering with the old argument of "'X' amount of people in this country don't pay any federal income taxes". We already know about that.

    Collectively, the middle-class are the "taxpayers" in this country. I don't think anyone can argue against that.
    What % of middle class taxpayers pay 25% of their income in income tax?

    And I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. "The taxpayer" is anyone who pays taxes. It's not "the working class" because that has an entirely different meaning. People who pay federal income tax mostly have health insurance already. So if your implying that republicans are phrasing it as people who pay and have health insurance don't want to bear the cost of those without health insurance who mostly don't pay taxes, then yes you are correct.

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Only because you inferred that it is the young who know about ObamaCare but still won't buy insurance. Your post #7:



    If we can be honest for a moment, people who "have pretty much refused to work because Uncle Sugar provides" aren't looking to purchase their own health care plan anyway for the very reason you stated - they know that as long as they are classified as poor and in some cases can demonstrate a medical need (i.e., pregnancy), they'll get Medicaid. But again, that's a state administration/authorization problem for the most part, not a federal problem despite the fact that the federal government sets the federal poverty limit. States can do a better job of setting the bar higher on that revolving door to state co-sponsored benefits. But more to the point, if you are "currently eligible" for ObamaCare coverage but you don't buy it, that signifies that these people have made a choice not to get coverage. To that, we both agree. However, it's very disingenuous to say that the only reason they aren't signing up for it is because "they don't want it". Truth is, no one working part-time or has a job where their pay barely meets their survival needs is going to spend their money on a health insurance policy if they can remain on their parent's insurance.



    Maybe not, but your own argument suggests their refusal to buy health insurance has more to do with cost than the make-up of a Bronze, Silver or Gold policy purchased through an "ObamaCare" regulated health insurance exchange whether said policy is purchased from their representative state or via the federal government. Income is the basis of their reluctance to buy health care coverage, not where they get insurance coverage.



    I have and that's why I can say that much of the information out there about the law simply isn't true. It may not be a perfect law, but is the best law the nation was going to get under the circumstances. Frankly, I preferred the CLASS Act; atleast then everyone who participated would have bought into the system and reaped the benefits based moreso on their buy-in. But as long as new entrants are allowed to remain on someone else's policy during the interim benefit build-up period (5-years) before they can use said benefits, why purchase a policy? Better to save your money and use the benefit package you grew up with especially if mom and dad are still paying for it.



    Again, why should they? It use to be that if you were 18 yo and went to college, you could remain on your parent's insurance policy until you either reached age 24, graduated or dropped out. But with ObamaCare, young people don't have to worry about it.

    So, no. They aren't rushing out to get insurance now nor were they doing so beforehand. Of course, why would they? There was no need.
    You're right it's about money. And doubling their premiums by restricting medical underwriting isn't making money less of an issue rather then more.

    It's by design, the law expects the young and healthy to pay premiums multiples of what they should have in order to subsidize everyone else.

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    Re: Obama : Republicans' 'Unifying Principle' Is Denying Health Care To 30 Million Pe

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post

    "Current pre-existing condition exclusion regulation[edit source]

    Individual (non-group) health insurance plans[7]
    Maximum pre-existing condition exclusion period

    unlimited — Alaska*, Arizona*, Arkansas*, Delaware*, District of Columbia*, Louisiana*, Missouri*, Nebraska*, Nevada*, Oklahoma*

    Maximum look-back period for pre-existing conditions
    unlimited — Alaska, Arizona, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Wisconsin


    Wikipedia.org"
    So basically what you've proved is that people could be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions exclusions? Thanks for going to wikipedia and proving my point for me. Together we can discredit the entire argument some people have been presenting.

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