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Thread: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ [W:161]

  1. #321
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Can't stop generalizing no matter what huh? I don't give a crap about the Republican party. Nothing in right-wing ideology implies racism.
    I cannot point out every right wing republican by name now can I. And I am sorry, but thousand in the far right section of the republican party do have racist character trades. I am not claiming all extremely right republican voters are racists but some of them are. That is not generalizing but stating the obvious/facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Irony?
    Not ironic but a very deliberate train of thought that is also present in the far left voting block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Started by Hillary Clinton supporters.
    Yes, but grabbed on by the republicans who ran with it and ran with it and ran with it. Even after he shown his birth certificate, the birther crowd did not let it go but went on whining about it and whining about it till this day.

    Wonder if the birther crowd will go after Ted Cruz as relentlessly as they did with Obama. The birther crowd kept suggesting that Obama had not been born in the US/Hawaii. Of Ted Cruz we know that he was not born in the USA, he was born in Canada to an American mother. Or are democrats going to play the same stupid games with Cruz as the republicans did with Obama when citizenship/birth issues are concerned. I sincerely hope not but some might think turnabout is fair play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    If people stop advocating for socialism, or just admitted that it is socialist, they wouldn't have it pointed out all the time.
    Except that republicans claiming something is socialist and it actually being socialist is not the same thing. I am a social democrat and I do not see the democratic party or Obama as socialists. He is not socially aware enough to be in contention of becoming a social democrat and in virtually all other policies Obama is not close to social democracy so he is even further away from actual socialism.

    Even I, a social democrat, cannot stomach true socialists because they are too extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Also an extreme minority.
    Yes, that is why the NC republican party introduced an anti-sharia law. Like there was any risk of sharia law being made legal in the US. And to show how some republicans work, they attached a bill to restrict abortions in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Are you just regurgitating random talking points now? When did we start talking about Republican primaries?
    No, I was just saying that in the current republican party the tea party and the religious right have taken the republican party hostage due to their importance during republican primaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Republicans make it harder for republicans to be elected because they constantly prove the adage of both parties being the same as true, and they refuse to break this idea that parroting the Democrats is somehow the moderate position, pushing a large segment of the American right into apathy or third parties, like the libertarian party.
    Sorry, but this republican party is not the same party as the one in 1994 because they were able to cooperate with the democrats. The democratic party as not moved far from where they were in the past, it is the republicans that are afraid to work with democrats IMHO. They are totally afraid of the tea party. Even Mitch McConnell is being targeted by the tea party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    That's why I said it was typical. Don't use others failings to justify your own though, you should know better than to judge an entire group of people by the minority. Or do you believe the "very very right" necessarily implies racism?
    I am not judging a whole group by the minority but with such vocally extreme positions, there are some republicans that seem to over scream the silent majority of republican voters who want nothing to do with the extremist views of some tea party members. Most republicans are totally not racist.

    And sorry, but the far right is famous for being racist.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Congratulation, you have won a free Obama phone for defending an incompetent Commander and Chief who after 4 1/2 years still hasn't earned the respect of those who serve under his incompetent command.
    Please feel free to share any of my statements in this thread defending Obama. You have now misrepresented my words just as you misrepresented the Times article by saying Obama ordered a Court Marshal, which is one of the 2-issues I have commented on regarding your words. The other was your extreme displeasure that Marines had to put their weapons in the armory when Obama visits . . . . again, on one hand, and then a few posts later, your other hand talks about how if he had been in the Nam, he'd have been fragged. It's not just this thread, but almost everyone you comment in . . . it seems you like to have things all ways. And that's funny to a casual observer. Even your quote above is hilarious because I did no such thing as defend Obama in this conversation. My comments revolved around your words, which do not seem to make much sense when combined collectively. What's even more funny? I really think you do not even realize it. Now . . . feel free to find another article to cut and paste as a reply that has nothing to do with my actual words.

  3. #323
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I cannot point out every right wing republican by name now can I. And I am sorry, but thousand in the far right section of the republican party do have racist character trades. I am not claiming all extremely right republican voters are racists but some of them are. That is not generalizing but stating the obvious/facts.
    I'm glad to see you've reformed your thinking a bit. Indeed, some of them are. There are racists in many places.

    Not ironic but a very deliberate train of thought that is also present in the far left voting block.
    I was referencing your rather sudden switch to "intolerance of the other side," something that you were previously engaging in through your generalization.

    Yes, but grabbed on by the republicans who ran with it and ran with it and ran with it. Even after he shown his birth certificate, the birther crowd did not let it go but went on whining about it and whining about it till this day.
    The only people I hear bringing it up nowadays are Obama supporters wanting to make a point about his opposition being irrational and Obama himself. I'd say this, as a political board, would have a good number of "far right" individuals, including republicans, yet I haven't seen anything about the birth certificate in quite awhile from people on this board.

    Wonder if the birther crowd will go after Ted Cruz as relentlessly as they did with Obama. The birther crowd kept suggesting that Obama had not been born in the US/Hawaii.
    I doubt it. I also doubt Ted Cruz and his supporters would bring it up every three minutes either.

    Of Ted Cruz we know that he was not born in the USA, he was born in Canada to an American mother. Or are democrats going to play the same stupid games with Cruz as the republicans did with Obama when citizenship/birth issues are concerned. I sincerely hope not but some might think turnabout is fair play.
    Well, considering Democrats started it, I wouldn't act like their above the behavior.

    Except that republicans claiming something is socialist and it actually being socialist is not the same thing.
    No, it's the rooting in socialist ideology that makes it socialist.

    I am a social democrat and I do not see the democratic party or Obama as socialists.
    I'm sure you don't.

    He is not socially aware enough to be in contention of becoming a social democrat and in virtually all other policies Obama is not close to social democracy so he is even further away from actual socialism.
    His rhetoric and political positioning, as a whole, of the Democrat party has a socialist bent to it. That's why they always run on taking other peoples stuff. I know they do that less then you would like, and thus you don't see it as socialist, but it is fundamentally socialist. The attitude is founded in a complete lack of respect for private property and notion that it is justifiable to vote away other's property is socialist.

    Even I, a social democrat, cannot stomach true socialists because they are too extreme.
    Social democrats are socialist. They just believe in achieving socialism through democracy as opposed to revolution.

    Unless the Netherlands political system defines it differently.

    Yes, that is why the NC republican party introduced an anti-sharia law. Like there was any risk of sharia law being made legal in the US. And to show how some republicans work, they attached a bill to restrict abortions in the process.
    There were court cases in which were being ruled on the basis of sharia law. If you are implying sharia law is going to become the official law, then obviously that's ridiculous, but that wasn't the point of the legislation. The point was to ensure that America's legal protection applied to everyone. If you want to oppress your women, stay in a sharia friendly country.

    No, I was just saying that in the current republican party the tea party and the religious right have taken the republican party hostage due to their importance during republican primaries.
    And where did that come from? Why are you bringing this viewpoint up? What relevance is it? Do you want to bring the conversation to that instead?


    Sorry, but this republican party is not the same party as the one in 1994 because they were able to cooperate with the democrats.
    In 1994 the president worked with the republicans on welfare reform and spending cuts to balance the budget. Obama has made it a habit to ask for way more than what he wants then demand a little less, and if he doesn't get it, you refuse to compromise. Of course, nothing you want will come to pass. So you can either give him what he wants without getting ANYTHING you want, or he'll eviscerate you through political posturing. He's the best at this sort of thing I've ever seen.

    The democratic party as not moved far from where they were in the past,
    The difference between Bill Clinton's actions and Obama's actions are night and day.

    it is the republicans that are afraid to work with democrats IMHO.
    Well, your opinion is uninformed. It has come to the point that nobody trusts Obama because he's demonstrated that's hes a two-faced liar whose more concerned with political posturing than getting things done.

    They are totally afraid of the tea party.
    I don't know why, it's typical for there to be disagreements withing a party in a two-party system.

    Even Mitch McConnell is being targeted by the tea party.
    The biggest criticism of McConnell comes from his actions during the Bush Administration. Things like No Child Left Behind and the bailouts, not exactly popular issues with anyone.

    I am not judging a whole group by the minority but with such vocally extreme positions, there are some republicans that seem to over scream the silent majority of republican voters who want nothing to do with the extremist views of some tea party members. Most republicans are totally not racist.
    Well, you were, but you've changed your tune. Good for you. I wouldn't say the majority is "silent" either, most just don't make headlines. There are plenty of non-racists right wingers out there to listen to (some on this very board!)

    And sorry, but the far right is famous for being racist.
    A fame unearned.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

  4. #324
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Social democrats are socialist. They just believe in achieving socialism through democracy as opposed to revolution.

    Unless the Netherlands political system defines it differently.
    No, you are totally wrong:

    Socialism vs Social Democracy — What’s The Difference?

    Socialism is about collective ownership of the means of production;
    Social democracy about organic social solidarity with private ownership of production.

    Socialism is restrictive;
    Social democracy somewhat libertarian, they believe in freedom

    Socialism is metaphysical (excessively abstract reasoning);
    Social democracy the other empirical (demonstrable, verifiable reasoning).

    Socialism is dogmatic;
    Social democracy is reflective and scientific.

    Socialism is very much emotional and all about feeling politically superior to others
    Social democracy is much more cooperative and can work with others

    Socialism is destructive, it destroys freedoms and societies
    Social democracy wants to be and is mostly constructive.

    Both are in pursuit of the greatest possible welfare for all.
    – Socialism aims to establish equal happiness for all;

    – Social democracy the other to enable each to be happy in one’s own way.

    Socialism regards the State as a society that all most bow down to, the State reigns supreme and the leaders of the state have loads of perks.
    Social democracy considers the State as an association like any other, generally managed no better and no more efficient than others.

    Socialism proclaims the sovereignty of the State and wants to reform other societies in their own image and to take freedom away from the population.
    Social democrats do not see the state as the sovereignty but as a necessary evil, there to protect freedom

    Socialism wishes all monopolies to be held by the State;
    Social democracy wishes the abolition of all/almost all monopolies (they believe in oversight rather than state monopolies).

    Socialism wishes the governed class to become the governing class;
    Social democracy wishes the disappearance of classes.

    Socialism want total leveling of the salary structure of the society/aka full redistribution of wealth
    Social democrats want some modest level of leveling/redistribution of wealth

    Socialism wishes that there should be none but proletariats;
    Social democrats wishes that there should be no more proletariats.

    Socialism wishes to take everything away from everybody, no personal property of factories/farms etc.
    Social democracy wishes to leave each in possession of its own.


    Socialism says: Do as the government wishes;
    Social democracy says: Do as you wish yourself, but respect the rights of others.

    Socialism makes the citizen the subject of the State;
    Social democracy makes the State the employee of the citizen, the state works for us and not the other way around

    Socialism proclaims that labor pains will be necessary to the birth of a new world (read violence, poverty, inequality)
    Social democracy declares that real progress will not cause suffering to any one, progress will come through working together

    Socialism has confidence in social warfare, the battle of the proletariat against all others
    Social democracy believes only in works of peace and by working with others not against others

    Socialism aspires to command, to regulate, to legislate
    Social democracy wishes to attain the minimum of command, of regulation, of legislation possible for a good and decent society.

    One desires equality; the other seeks equity.
    – Socialism by lowering heads that are too high;

    – Social democracy by raising heads that are too low.

    Socialism sees equality under a common yoke
    Social democracy will secure equity in as much complete liberty as is possible in a society

    Socialism is intolerant to all except their own
    Social democracy the other tolerant to others

    Socialism wishes to instruct everybody;
    Social democracy wishes to enable everybody to instruct one’s self.

    Socialism wishes to support everybody as an ultimate form of solidarity. They have taken solidarity to a ridiculous extreme.
    Social democracy to enable everybody to support one’s self through modest solidarity.


    At least that is how I have felt it and see it in Europe.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  5. #325
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    No, you are totally wrong:

    Socialism vs Social Democracy — What’s The Difference?

    Socialism is about collective ownership of the means of production;
    Social democracy about organic social solidarity with private ownership of production.

    Socialism is restrictive;
    Social democracy somewhat libertarian, they believe in freedom

    Socialism is metaphysical (excessively abstract reasoning);
    Social democracy the other empirical (demonstrable, verifiable reasoning).

    Socialism is dogmatic;
    Social democracy is reflective and scientific.

    Socialism is very much emotional and all about feeling politically superior to others
    Social democracy is much more cooperative and can work with others

    Socialism is destructive, it destroys freedoms and societies
    Social democracy wants to be and is mostly constructive.

    Both are in pursuit of the greatest possible welfare for all.
    – Socialism aims to establish equal happiness for all;

    – Social democracy the other to enable each to be happy in one’s own way.

    Socialism regards the State as a society that all most bow down to, the State reigns supreme and the leaders of the state have loads of perks.
    Social democracy considers the State as an association like any other, generally managed no better and no more efficient than others.

    Socialism proclaims the sovereignty of the State and wants to reform other societies in their own image and to take freedom away from the population.
    Social democrats do not see the state as the sovereignty but as a necessary evil, there to protect freedom

    Socialism wishes all monopolies to be held by the State;
    Social democracy wishes the abolition of all/almost all monopolies (they believe in oversight rather than state monopolies).

    Socialism wishes the governed class to become the governing class;
    Social democracy wishes the disappearance of classes.

    Socialism want total leveling of the salary structure of the society/aka full redistribution of wealth
    Social democrats want some modest level of leveling/redistribution of wealth

    Socialism wishes that there should be none but proletariats;
    Social democrats wishes that there should be no more proletariats.

    Socialism wishes to take everything away from everybody, no personal property of factories/farms etc.
    Social democracy wishes to leave each in possession of its own.


    Socialism says: Do as the government wishes;
    Social democracy says: Do as you wish yourself, but respect the rights of others.

    Socialism makes the citizen the subject of the State;
    Social democracy makes the State the employee of the citizen, the state works for us and not the other way around

    Socialism proclaims that labor pains will be necessary to the birth of a new world (read violence, poverty, inequality)
    Social democracy declares that real progress will not cause suffering to any one, progress will come through working together

    Socialism has confidence in social warfare, the battle of the proletariat against all others
    Social democracy believes only in works of peace and by working with others not against others

    Socialism aspires to command, to regulate, to legislate
    Social democracy wishes to attain the minimum of command, of regulation, of legislation possible for a good and decent society.

    One desires equality; the other seeks equity.
    – Socialism by lowering heads that are too high;

    – Social democracy by raising heads that are too low.

    Socialism sees equality under a common yoke
    Social democracy will secure equity in as much complete liberty as is possible in a society

    Socialism is intolerant to all except their own
    Social democracy the other tolerant to others

    Socialism wishes to instruct everybody;
    Social democracy wishes to enable everybody to instruct one’s self.

    Socialism wishes to support everybody as an ultimate form of solidarity. They have taken solidarity to a ridiculous extreme.
    Social democracy to enable everybody to support one’s self through modest solidarity.


    At least that is how I have felt it and see it in Europe.
    So you define social democrat in a strange way, as I said was a possibility.

    Traditionally, social democrats are gradualist socialists.

    Though, then again, the comparisons for social democrats are not unlike gradualist socialism. I would say though, if some of these points are accurate, the American left are more close to social democrats than what you call social democrats.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

  6. #326
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    So you define social democrat in a strange way, as I said was a possibility.

    Traditionally, social democrats are gradualist socialists.

    Though, then again, the comparisons for social democrats are not unlike gradualist socialism. I would say though, if some of these points are accurate, the American left are more close to social democrats than what you call social democrats.
    No, I do not define a social democrat in a strange way, I define him in a correct way.

    And as a 3rd generation proud social democrat, I think I know very well what social democracy is all about and that they/we are not gradualist socialists.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  7. #327
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Obama is a very unsettling President to the unsettled citizens who I cited...

    Now you cite some of the President's 'coded messages'
    No need getting upset that I know exactly how they did things back in the 70's at that place. Sorry it didn't fit what you were saying.

    I don't work for you. Go fetch your own material.

  8. #328
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    No, I do not define a social democrat in a strange way, I define him in a correct way.

    And as a 3rd generation proud social democrat, I think I know very well what social democracy is all about and that they/we are not gradualist socialists.
    Third generation? Well, your grandpappy was definitely a socialist, sorry.

    Where did the social democrat ideology begin?
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    This president is merely reaping what he has sown. He came in under the shadow of NBP soldiers harassing white voters at the polls. His AG is in cahoots with him on what laws they will care to enforce, and how to make race part of everything they do (while denying doing it). He interjects himself on local court cases in a obscene need to make it all about himself. He hasn't the courage to denounce racists like Sharpton, Jackson etc... who further fan the fires for their own benefit.

    This division (or worsening of it) is his doing. He deserves this serenade. Too bad there weren't more verses to entertain him with.

  10. #330
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    Re: Obama Protesters Sing 'Bye Bye Black Sheep,' in AZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Third generation? Well, your grandpappy was definitely a socialist, sorry.

    Where did the social democrat ideology begin?
    So now you are insulting my grandmother by calling her a socialist? FYI, my grandfather, died before I was born. It seems you have a real problem with just reading what I write, my grandparents, my mother and myself are social democrats, NOT socialists.

    Social democracy started in the Netherlands in 1894. The current social democratic party was formed just after the second world war, when the previous social democrats party that was banned during the second world war joined forces with the progressive liberal party and the Christian Democratic Union.

    Dutch social democracy was started because they did not believe in the Anarchistic/socialistic/communist leader of the Socialist Union who believed in revolution.

    As stated before, while socialists believe in revolution and making every one into the proletariat, we as social-democracy supporters (as my grandparents, my mother and myself) do not believe in that.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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