French deemed 'too lazy' for Swiss recruiters

Arcana XV said:

It's not exactly the same, though. Your illegals actually live in the US while they work there. So the money they get paid, even if it's a lot less than what an American would work for, seems to be enough for them to pay for rent, food, transportation etc.... The French only work here, for less pay which is more than enough for them to live on comfortably over the border in France. This drives Swiss salaries down in certain industries and makes it impossible for Swiss citizens, who have to live in this country, to make ends meet. Rent, food, transportation, every damn thing is twice as expensive as in France. So, yeah, people are mad.

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Sounds really similar to what is happening at the border with Germany. Yes, some people are mad, and it's even understandable. But where would the Swiss hospitals be without all the French and German doctors? Would the ETH Zurich be such a top university without all the hated foreigners? The Swiss economy needs those people.
Then, if you look at the German (or French) side, you get millions of Swiss cars blocking the parking lots of the shopping mals every weekend, not nice really

paris said:

I love the Swiss. They speak funny.

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You mean because they say "ninety-six" instead of simply saying "four-twenty-sixteen" just like everyone else?

ernst barkmann said:

you know i am sure if you would setup your own ticket fund, we on the forum would chip in and give you that one way ticket to France.

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Yeah, because that's the only alternative in conservativebizarroworld: if you like France, you must hate the US.

Wow, you guys need counseling. But I'll take your money. Only in teapartyweirdoworld is a trip to Paris a bad thing.

head of joaquin said:

Yeah, because that's the only alternative in conservativebizarroworld: if you like France, you must hate the US.

Wow, you guys need counseling. But I'll take your money. Only in teapartyweirdoworld is a trip to Paris a bad thing.

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friend, i lived in Europe, and been to France, and other countries of Europe in my time, its a very nice place to visit, and i loved the food, however i am not interested in the political structures of there governments.

if you wish to live in France, then find yourself a one bedroom apartment in Paris, 350 sq ft for about 1700 dollars a month, your more than welcome, however please stop with telling americans that they should be like France.

ernst barkmann said:

friend, i lived in Europe, and been to France, and other countries of Europe in my time, its a very nice place to visit, and i loved the food, however i am not interested in the political structures of there governments.

if you wish to live in France, then find yourself a one bedroom apartment in Paris, 350 sq ft for about 1700 dollars a month, your more than welcome, however please stop with telling americans that they should be like France.

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Hey, you lived in Europe too! Wow we have a common bond!

You mean Paris is expensive! Thank God New York isn't. We are so much better than those Frogs and their expensive socialist city living!

And thanks for your advise -- yes, I'll stop telling Americans we should be like the French and cultivate education and worker rights and better living standards. It's best to just accept your trailer park world because after all, it's Amurika

Sanddune said:

It is this way: Switzerland, small as it is, is sub-divided into 20 or so cantons. The people from each canton have a deep seated mistrust and rivalry with the people from all other cantons (called "Kantönligeist"). Then, on a higher level there is a very large degree of animosity between the French and the German speaking cantons. Then there is some animosity between the French and German speaking Swiss on the one side and the Italian speaking Swiss on the other. And all Swiss are united in their mistrust against foreigners.

To be able to characterize French and Germans as "not fitting in", i.e. people who speak the same languages as the Swiss and have a similar culture, the cultural differences are looked at with a microscope and the smallest issues are turned into huge problems in a way that would be seen as comedy anywhere outside of Switzerland.

The reason why people still go to Switzerland to work there is more money and a less hierarchical and more cooperative working atmosphere. If that outweighs the hostility depends on the place you go to, the people you happen to meet, and yourself.

That's the sort of thing I heard from Germans working in Switzerland.

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Now this, I can pretty much agree with. Except for your claim that Germans and Swiss Germans speak the same language. They do not. Some Swiss Germans can barely put together a sentence in "Hochdeutsch". :lol:

Sanddune said:

Okay, I should maybe add that most Swiss people are decent and pleasant human beings just like people everywhere. And they are very friendly if you come as a tourist. And of course they have a very rich cultural and political heritage and every reason to value their traditions.

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I've only been a Swiss citizen for half a decade, but still, thank you. We totally rock some stuff.

I haven't lived in Switzerland but met a whole bunch of people who have. What they tell you is, for example, if you move to Lucerne, and then, after a while, get a Swiss licence plate for your car, and drive through the city just like before, it suddenly becomes possible to switch lanes on the main roads without struggling and having to deal with cars aggressively filling any space you would have needed.

Is it xenophobia, or are the people who fail to get themselves a Swiss licence plate simply not fitting in well enough?

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I couldn't tell you. I've never had that experience, but then again, I've always driven with Swiss plates here. Are you talking about cars with German plates? When I lived in Swiss Germany the wave of German workers hadn't arrived yet, but I don't remember people treating foreign cars in this manner. I do know that in the French part people are generally weary of cars with French plates because they have a reputation of causing a lot of accidents. And the thing is, they really do suck at driving. I don't think Germans have the same reputation, though. Really couldn't tell you. I rarely go to the German part anymore.

Fitting in by speaking the dialect is a good idea, but if you're German and start trying to speak Swiss German, people will either think you are ruining their dialect or they will think you are making fun of it. The best way to go is apparently speaking standard German but understanding Swiss German. Many people do manage to fit in that way, but of course they are still recognized as foreigners. In Germany, we simply don't care if someone is Swiss or German. In Switzerland, it has a great implication. If you say you are not treated as a foreigner, I wonder, what do you think of people who treat anyone "as a foreigner"? The whole idea of "treating someone as a foreigner" is an unknown concept to anyone I would ever want to have anything to do with.

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The Swiss only treat as foreigners those who live here but make no effort to fit in. If you speak Hochdeutsch but understand Swiss German you won't have a problem, as you stated. As long as you don't force them to speak German to you, you'll be okay. One thing I noticed when I lived in Zurich is that Swiss Germans would rather speak English or even French or Italian rather than German. I don't know why they dislike the language so much.

As for the French, they don't have that problem at all here in the French part. Other than the way we say some numbers and a different accent, we pretty much speak exactly the same language.

We're not so bad, you know. Foreign nationals make up close to 20% of the population. That is a lot for such a small country. The inevitable clash of cultures could be a lot worse.

Sanddune said:

Sounds really similar to what is happening at the border with Germany. Yes, some people are mad, and it's even understandable. But where would the Swiss hospitals be without all the French and German doctors? Would the ETH Zurich be such a top university without all the hated foreigners? The Swiss economy needs those people.
Then, if you look at the German (or French) side, you get millions of Swiss cars blocking the parking lots of the shopping mals every weekend, not nice really

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I'm not disputing the need for highly qualified professionals. The problem stems from them dragging local salaries down. Switzerland is prohibitively expensive as it is. Many people can't afford to make any less money.

ReformCollege said:

Their constitution can also be amended much easier then ours. But I really meant time will tell if France struggles as a country. Their economy is in much worse shape then ours is.

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Well actually it is easy to amend right now because the Socialists hold a super majority but otherwise I would imagine it would be rather difficult.

head of joaquin said:

Hey, you lived in Europe too! Wow we have a common bond!

You mean Paris is expensive! Thank God New York isn't. We are so much better than those Frogs and their expensive socialist city living!

And thanks for your advise -- yes, I'll stop telling Americans we should be like the French and cultivate education and worker rights and better living standards. It's best to just accept your trailer park world because after all, it's Amurika

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better standards......:rofl......workers rights.......sounds like something out of a1950's communist movie, ...you imperialist running dog.....:2razz:

Arcana XV said:

I've only been a Swiss citizen for half a decade, but still, thank you. We totally rock some stuff.

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Especially the political system. I'm a big fan of direct democracy. Where are you from originally by the way?

I couldn't tell you. I've never had that experience, but then again, I've always driven with Swiss plates here. Are you talking about cars with German plates? When I lived in Swiss Germany the wave of German workers hadn't arrived yet, but I don't remember people treating foreign cars in this manner. I do know that in the French part people are generally weary of cars with French plates because they have a reputation of causing a lot of accidents. And the thing is, they really do suck at driving. I don't think Germans have the same reputation, though. Really couldn't tell you. I rarely go to the German part anymore.

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I guess the licence plate thing is something you just won't notice if you have a Swiss licence plate. The same way you won't notice the difficulties that foreigners run into when they look for an apartment to rent (that's anywhere in Europe and beyond).

The Swiss only treat as foreigners those who live here but make no effort to fit in. If you speak Hochdeutsch but understand Swiss German you won't have a problem, as you stated. As long as you don't force them to speak German to you, you'll be okay. One thing I noticed when I lived in Zurich is that Swiss Germans would rather speak English or even French or Italian rather than German. I don't know why they dislike the language so much.

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Because they're horrendously bad at it and rightly fear that they might make a fool of themselves by trying to speak it. In Germany, speaking with a heavy regional accent is something you only do if you're from a very remote village in the middle of nowhere or if you're a comedian. Most Swiss people don't want to be seen in that light.

As for the French, they don't have that problem at all here in the French part. Other than the way we say some numbers and a different accent, we pretty much speak exactly the same language.

We're not so bad, you know. Foreign nationals make up close to 20% of the population. That is a lot for such a small country. The inevitable clash of cultures could be a lot worse.

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Well you don't have a violent neo-nazi scene like in Germany, Hungary or Sweden but your strongest political party is a bunch of xenophobes.

http://www.kick-black-sheep.wg.am/HBwEfjWv_Pxgen_r_180xA.jpg

http://www.svp-ruemlang.ch/images/Einburg.jpg

How can you vote for that ****? How can any sane person come up with the idea of banning minarets? And how can the majority of the population vote for such a thing?

0bserver92 said:

Well actually it is easy to amend right now because the Socialists hold a super majority but otherwise I would imagine it would be rather difficult.

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3/5th majority vs 2/3rds and 3/4ths majorities I believe

It's basically the same as our Senate for a normal law

Sanddune said:

Especially the political system. I'm a big fan of direct democracy. Where are you from originally by the way?

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I'm an ex-pat brat. Grew up all over the place. I was born in Spain, then my father's job dragged us to his native Canada, then France, Italy, then Kenya and Switzerland. My own job took me back to Canada, the US and again to Switzerland, where I've finally settled down. I'm a citizen of Spain and Italy through my mother, of Canada through my father and of Switzerland by choice. To tell you the truth, I don't really know where I'm really from anymore. :lol:

Well you don't have a violent neo-nazi scene like in Germany, Hungary or Sweden but your strongest political party is a bunch of xenophobes.

http://www.kick-black-sheep.wg.am/HBwEfjWv_Pxgen_r_180xA.jpg

http://www.svp-ruemlang.ch/images/Einburg.jpg

How can you vote for that ****? How can any sane person come up with the idea of banning minarets? And how can the majority of the population vote for such a thing?

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Oh gawd! Don't remind me. I can't freaking stand them. They're just a bunch of provincial populist idiots. There are a couple of issues I've agreed with them on, but their racist, xenophobic campaigns have ensured that they would never get my vote. I voted against that idiotic minaret ban. Actually what is banned is the construction of new minarets. Those already in place will not be taken down. But I'll tell you an anecdote that was reported in the papers here at the time. Apparently, a big chunk of Swiss Muslims voted for the ban. They said that minarets were not a necessity to them and that social peace was more important.

ernst barkmann said:

better standards......:rofl......workers rights.......sounds like something out of a1950's communist movie, ...you imperialist running dog.....:2razz:

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"Communism." This is so quaint.

But I'm glad when you hear higher living standards you think communism and reject them. It sort of sums up the nihilism of conservatism.

As Bush said, "The problem with the French is that they have no word for 'entrepreneur'". How that sums up the tea party swirl of ignorance.

head of joaquin said:

I always find the Francophobia of conservatives hilarious. Basically, the French represent everything conservatives fear: an intelligent, well-educated electorate that, isn't afraid of complex issues, votes it progressive values, actually thinks about the future, doesn't allow the rich to take away their rights (even to the point of taking to the streets and rioting), and rejects the stupidities of conservative demagoguery.

Oh, and has superior cuisine, I forgot to mention that.

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How's all of that working out for France? Psttt, it isn't....

ReformCollege said:

How's all of that working out for France? Psttt, it isn't....

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Yeah, France is really in trouble after the misrule of conservative Sarkozy. Good point.

But it does have the 5th largest GDP in the world, despite its alleged "socialism". I guess that's a problem for your bizarre tea party narrative.

tererun said:

You are correct, I am pretty damned sure you cannot get much more lazy and worthless than CEOs or middle management types here in the US. They have two speeds, nothing and screwing stuff up.

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Forbes orFortune magazine did a study on the "typical" CEO of a top 500 company and their lives before they made CEO. the average work week was 70 hours. The average times they moved for their job was 6 times. You must have them confused with AFSCME or other white color union members. Nothing is as lazy as white collar union workers

TurtleDude said:

Forbes orFortune magazine did a study on the "typical" CEO of a top 500 company and their lives before they made CEO. the average work week was 70 hours. The average times they moved for their job was 6 times. You must have them confused with AFSCME or other white color union members. Nothing is as lazy as white collar union workers

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Here you go again, quoting another debunked study. Like clockwork.

head of joaquin said:

Here you go again, quoting another debunked study. Like clockwork.

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it seems anything that rains on your hate America, hate capitalism, hate conservatism is "debunked"

sadly for you-your disagreement means nothing.

TurtleDude said:

it seems anything that rains on your hate America, hate capitalism, hate conservatism is "debunked"

sadly for you-your disagreement means nothing.

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I'm still waiting for you to quote Bush and say the problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur. It would be so perfect.

head of joaquin said:

I'm still waiting for you to quote Bush and say the problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur. It would be so perfect.

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why would I say that, when we have better quotes

"I'd rather have a German Division in front of me than a French Division behind me"

General George Patton

TurtleDude said:

why would I say that, when we have better quotes

"I'd rather have a German Division in front of me than a French Division behind me"

General George Patton

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So now the argument is France doesn't have a good army? Man, you're really reaching. Meanwhile it does have the 5th largest economy on the planet. Not bad for a socialist country with good cuisine and a bad army.

I find conservatives' Francophobia one of the more interesting quirks of rightwing pathology. So tell us more.

head of joaquin said:

So now the argument is France doesn't have a good army? Man, you're really reaching. Meanwhile it does have the 5th largest economy on the planet. Not bad for a socialist country with good cuisine and a bad army.

I find conservatives' Francophobia one of the more interesting quirks of rightwing pathology. So tell us more.

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all the brave Frenchman died charging German machine guns in the Great war leaving the cowards to breed was the claim of my Grandfather who fought with the French in WWI and was awarded the highest honor France could give a member of the AEA in 1918

France has become decadent. how many old french ladies died of heat a few years ago?

TurtleDude said:

all the brave Frenchman died charging German machine guns in the Great war leaving the cowards to breed was the claim of my Grandfather who fought with the French in WWI and was awarded the highest honor France could give a member of the AEA in 1918

France has become decadent. how many old french ladies died of heat a few years ago?

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Well you're getting close to a Bushism. I'll translate your post: "That's the problem with the French; they don't have a word for 'decadent'."

I bet you don't like them reading all those books and thinking about their lives. It's against the conservative credo.

TurtleDude said:

all the brave Frenchman died charging German machine guns in the Great war leaving the cowards to breed was the claim of my Grandfather who fought with the French in WWI and was awarded the highest honor France could give a member of the AEA in 1918

France has become decadent. how many old french ladies died of heat a few years ago?

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head of joaquin said:

Well you're getting close to a Bushism. I'll translate your post: "That's the problem with the French; they don't have a word for 'decadent'."
I bet you don't like them reading all those books and thinking about their lives. It's against the conservative credo.

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If you guys stop arguing, I'll invite you and we'll have some freedom fries together.