French deemed 'too lazy' for Swiss recruiters

0bserver92 said:

In my experience of French people is that hold themselves and their social programs (I think they are a part of their constitution) and especially their constitution/government (which I like the best of any country) in very high regard. Those labour laws and social programs are ingrained into French society if you want to reform them you need to change how the French see themselves. Those who advocate strict adherence to the American constitution should look at France who follow their constitution practically to the letter.

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Then I see them as struggling for the foreseeable future. But only time will tell.

0bserver92 said:

It's why the Socialists push for a wealth tax because there is massive stockpiled wealth in France.

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I suppose we can attribute that to the numerous invasions and transgressions from within. I must admit, this is news to me - not for the notoriously wealthy, but for the average folk.

The French. So lazy they produce more GDP per capita per hour worked than most other labor forces in the world. The Swiss assessment is just another example of the xenophobia which pervades every European country.

ReformCollege said:

Then I see them as struggling for the foreseeable future. But only time will tell.

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I checked and to my understanding yes those social protections are part of their constitution.

humbolt said:

I suppose we can attribute that to the numerous invasions and transgressions from within. I must admit, this is news to me - not for the notoriously wealthy, but for the average folk.

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Most of it is in Paris, as Paris is the business centre of Europe and the EU. It is the second largest city economically in the world only behind Tokyo.

I love the Swiss. They speak funny.

Ryan5 said:

French deemed 'too lazy' for Swiss recruiters - The Local


French deemed 'too lazy' for Swiss recruiters

Swiss recruitment firms are shunning French candidates because they are deemed "too lazy" and "arrogant" and have a penchant for ringing in sick on Mondays and Fridays, according to reports in a Swiss newspaper this week.
Published: 29 Jul 2013 15:33 CET

The French have come under the cosh for their work ethic in recent months. In February, outspoken American CEO Maurice Taylor accused French factory workers of spending most of their time at work talking and now it is the turn of the Swiss to cast aspersions on how hard the French work.
This week, a Swiss paper provoked headlines and more soul searching in France by claiming recruitment firms in the country are shunning the French because they are perceived to be too “lazy and arrogant”.
Le Matin Dimanche reported that Swiss recruitment firms are including the requirement “Swiss or resident in Switzerland” in job adverts to avoid being inundated by French applicants.
Recruitment agencies interviewed by the newspaper say they include the condition in order to meet with the desires of their clients, who have a less than flattering view of the French.
The newspaper quotes the head of recruitment at a medium sized construction firm, who complains that the French staff are often ill on Mondays or Fridays and they have a "vengeful" attitude.
"There's always a problem. It's totally different with the Spanish and the Portuguese," the head of the recruitment tells the newspaper anonymously.
French are boycotted
Le Matin Dimanche writes that “In areas like construction… The French are boycotted: They are judged to be lazy and grumpy and pretentious by the companies".
Including a condition that stipulates candidates must be "Swiss or resident in Switzerland" is in fact against the law because of the 1999 agreement Switzerland signed with the EU over freedom of movement that requires citizens of both countries be treated equally.
To avoid breaking the laws Le Matin Dimanche said recruitment firms would often demand applicants must have a high level of German even when it is not needed, knowing this will reduce the chances of a French candidate applying.
The Swiss newspaper also claims that Swiss banks are put off recruiting French workers, because they are worried they might turn into whistleblowers.
This follows the recent case of Pierre Condamin-Gerbier, the former employee of Reyl and Cie bank, who recently handed over to authorities in Paris a list of French politicians he claimed had secret bank accounts in Switzerland.
The French work ethnic has not just come under scrutiny from foreigners.
French author Aurélie Boullet (alias Zoé Shepard) caused uproar when she published the book ‘Absolument Dé-bor-dée!’ (‘Absolutely Snowed Under!’), an ironic account of work in a fictional town hall, based on her own experience.
Boullet told The Local earlier this year that although the French did have certain issues such as an obsession with meetings, it was nevertheless unfair to criticize the work ethic of all French people.
“There’s no single work ethic in France, but rather there are many,” she said. “It depends on the people directing a company. Some [directors] inspire a real energy, instilling a “quality” approach – with regular assessments to see if the client and the public are satisfied.”


Ben McPartland (ben.mcpartland@thelocal.com)

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It would be a mistake to see this as anything else than a bad excuse for Swiss xenophobia. The Germans are boycotted by some Swiss firms because they don't speak German with a Swiss accent (which is something like a throat disease). If they try, they make a fool of themselves and are told to speak standard German again, if they don't, they are accused of not integrating.

What I'm saying is that xenophobes will always find an excuse for their xenophobia, however ridiculous. Never mind most of the German (and probably also the French) immigrants are highly qualified people who are badly needed by the Swiss economy.

What do you expect in a country in which an openly xenophobic party (Swiss People's Party) has gained more than 20% of the votes for the completely useless and purely hostile act of banning minarets (a majority even voted for that in a referendum) and for routinely insulting one immigrant group after the other?

Oh, even if it doesn't sound like that right now, I generally like and respect the Swiss and Switzerland is one of the few countries I look up to in many ways. And of course, xenophobia exists everywhere. It's just that one shouldn't read anything rational into the Swiss way of dealing with any foreign immigrants.

0bserver92 said:

I checked and to my understanding yes those social protections are part of their constitution.

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Their constitution can also be amended much easier then ours. But I really meant time will tell if France struggles as a country. Their economy is in much worse shape then ours is.

Sanddune said:

It would be a mistake to see this as anything else than a bad excuse for Swiss xenophobia. The Germans are boycotted by some Swiss firms because they don't speak German with a Swiss accent (which is something like a throat disease). If they try, they make a fool of themselves and are told to speak standard German again, if they don't, they are accused of not integrating.

What I'm saying is that xenophobes will always find an excuse for their xenophobia, however ridiculous. Never mind most of the German (and probably also the French) immigrants are highly qualified people who are badly needed by the Swiss economy.

What do you expect in a country in which an openly xenophobic party (Swiss People's Party) has gained more than 20% of the votes for the completely useless and purely hostile act of banning minarets (a majority even voted for that in a referendum) and for routinely insulting one immigrant group after the other?

Oh, even if it doesn't sound like that right now, I generally like and respect the Swiss and Switzerland is one of the few countries I look up to in many ways. And of course, xenophobia exists everywhere. It's just that one shouldn't read anything rational into the Swiss way of dealing with any foreign immigrants.

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Calling it xenophobia doesn't erase the enormous problems that immigration is imposing on many countries in Europe.

ReformCollege said:

Calling it xenophobia doesn't erase the enormous problems that immigration is imposing on many countries in Europe.

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Swiss xenophobia against French and Germans is a proof that it's possible to be xenophobic even when immigration actually benefits a country.

Sanddune said:

Swiss xenophobia against French and Germans is a proof that it's possible to be xenophobic even when immigration actually benefits a country.

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Or maybe they are just trying not to appear as racists by singling out Muslims so instead they attack anyone who they deem is "not fitting in."

Sanddune said:

It would be a mistake to see this as anything else than a bad excuse for Swiss xenophobia. The Germans are boycotted by some Swiss firms because they don't speak German with a Swiss accent (which is something like a throat disease). If they try, they make a fool of themselves and are told to speak standard German again, if they don't, they are accused of not integrating.

What I'm saying is that xenophobes will always find an excuse for their xenophobia, however ridiculous. Never mind most of the German (and probably also the French) immigrants are highly qualified people who are badly needed by the Swiss economy.

What do you expect in a country in which an openly xenophobic party (Swiss People's Party) has gained more than 20% of the votes for the completely useless and purely hostile act of banning minarets (a majority even voted for that in a referendum) and for routinely insulting one immigrant group after the other?

Oh, even if it doesn't sound like that right now, I generally like and respect the Swiss and Switzerland is one of the few countries I look up to in many ways. And of course, xenophobia exists everywhere. It's just that one shouldn't read anything rational into the Swiss way of dealing with any foreign immigrants.

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It's not xenophobia. It's more an expectation that if you decide to move here, you'd better adapt to Swiss society, because we're certainly not going to adapt to you. The expectations depend on what part of the country you find yourself in. In Swiss Germany, if you don't speak the local language you're never going to truly fit in. And that goes for Swiss citizens who come from the French or Italian speaking parts too, not just for foreign nationals. Don't confuse actual xenophobia, which of course exists, with the very Swiss tendency to fiercely protect its traditions and its various regional identities.

ReformCollege said:

Or maybe they are just trying not to appear as racists by singling out Muslims so instead they attack anyone who they deem is "not fitting in."

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White guilt runs so strong in some that the desire to avoid being considered racist results in such complete double standards that they become everything they claim to oppose.

Sanddune said:

Swiss xenophobia against French and Germans is a proof that it's possible to be xenophobic even when immigration actually benefits a country.

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Please stop with the unfounded generalization. I've been here for almost 20 years and when I first arrived in this country I used to think like you. Until I got to know these people and realized that xenophobia is rarely at the root of their animosity. You want to live and work here, you make an effort to fit in. I did. No one treats me like a foreigner anymore.

Gardener said:

White guilt runs so strong in some that the desire to avoid being considered racist results in such complete double standards that they become everything they claim to oppose.

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I have no such guilt, I just point out problems where they appear and facts as they are.

Arcana XV said:

Okay, let's be serious here.

There's been a growing backlash in the Swiss cantons bordering France against French residents who cross the border every day to work in Switzerland. The reasons why they seek work here are obvious. Our salaries are often up to three times higher than theirs. Local populist political parties have been calling for years for a reduction in French workers. Since the cost of living in France is so much lower, they come here and are willing to work for half the money a Swiss citizen needs. Obviously, Swiss companies were very happy at first to be hiring employees who were willing to work for peanuts (Swiss peanuts, of course, which everyone knows are made of pure gold). This made Swiss citizens really angry as they saw all those French workers as "stealing their jobs".

Now, according to the newspaper in question, of which I happen to have a copy right here on my desk, this new trend of avoiding French nationals is mostly affecting the banking/financing industries. The work ethic in this industry is extremely strict and demanding even by Swiss standards. Call it anal-retentive if you're so inclined, but the Swiss work ethic and the French work ethic (if such a thing even exists LOL!) are not exactly compatible. I'm not surprised employers in this particular industry are starting to avoid French applicants.

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Nothing new to the American experience. It is the main complaint regarding the impact illegals have on American unemployment. Few people realize that most illegal aliens are not trying to immigrate to the U.S.A. Instead, they are trying to make money here so that they and their families can live better in their country of origin.

ReformCollege said:

I have no such guilt, I just point out problems where they appear and facts as they are.

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I made no claims you did. There is no need to assume that every response to yours opposes yours or is accusatory in nature.

I was addressing the phenomenon that results in people forming double standards based upon race or other factors that would account for their being resistant to immigration from one group but unwilling to express the same sentiment for another.

Arcana XV said:

You want to live and work here, you make an effort to fit in. I did. No one treats me like a foreigner anymore.

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Wait a minute here, Arcana -- you stopped being sultry, sensual and complex and opted for punctual, orderly and sensible?

Damn, just damn!

Gardener said:

Wait a minute here, Arcana -- you stopped being sultry, sensual and complex and opted for punctual, orderly and sensible?

Damn, just damn!

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LOL

I live in Geneva. We're practically French.

But all jokes aside, when I lived in Zurich, yes, I had to be punctual, orderly and sensible. Which is why I got the hell outta there as soon as I could.

Gardener said:

I made no claims you did. There is no need to assume that every response to yours opposes yours or is accusatory in nature.

I was addressing the phenomenon that results in people forming double standards based upon race or other factors that would account for their being resistant to immigration from one group but unwilling to express the same sentiment for another.

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Of course they do. I wasn't intending it as a defensive response. You posed a characterization, and I was just adding to it as if to say "this is how people should act."

Captain Adverse said:

Nothing new to the American experience. It is the main complaint regarding the impact illegals have on American unemployment. Few people realize that most illegal aliens are not trying to immigrate to the U.S.A. Instead, they are trying to make money here so that they and their families can live better in their country of origin.

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It's not exactly the same, though. Your illegals actually live in the US while they work there. So the money they get paid, even if it's a lot less than what an American would work for, seems to be enough for them to pay for rent, food, transportation etc.... The French only work here, for less pay which is more than enough for them to live on comfortably over the border in France. This drives Swiss salaries down in certain industries and makes it impossible for Swiss citizens, who have to live in this country, to make ends meet. Rent, food, transportation, every damn thing is twice as expensive as in France. So, yeah, people are mad.

ReformCollege said:

Or maybe they are just trying not to appear as racists by singling out Muslims so instead they attack anyone who they deem is "not fitting in."

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It is this way: Switzerland, small as it is, is sub-divided into 20 or so cantons. The people from each canton have a deep seated mistrust and rivalry with the people from all other cantons (called "Kantönligeist"). Then, on a higher level there is a very large degree of animosity between the French and the German speaking cantons. Then there is some animosity between the French and German speaking Swiss on the one side and the Italian speaking Swiss on the other. And all Swiss are united in their mistrust against foreigners.

To be able to characterize French and Germans as "not fitting in", i.e. people who speak the same languages as the Swiss and have a similar culture, the cultural differences are looked at with a microscope and the smallest issues are turned into huge problems in a way that would be seen as comedy anywhere outside of Switzerland.

The reason why people still go to Switzerland to work there is more money and a less hierarchical and more cooperative working atmosphere. If that outweighs the hostility depends on the place you go to, the people you happen to meet, and yourself.

That's the sort of thing I heard from Germans working in Switzerland.

Arcana XV said:

Please stop with the unfounded generalization. I've been here for almost 20 years and when I first arrived in this country I used to think like you. Until I got to know these people and realized that xenophobia is rarely at the root of their animosity. You want to live and work here, you make an effort to fit in. I did. No one treats me like a foreigner anymore.

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Okay, I should maybe add that most Swiss people are decent and pleasant human beings just like people everywhere. And they are very friendly if you come as a tourist. And of course they have a very rich cultural and political heritage and every reason to value their traditions.

I haven't lived in Switzerland but met a whole bunch of people who have. What they tell you is, for example, if you move to Lucerne, and then, after a while, get a Swiss licence plate for your car, and drive through the city just like before, it suddenly becomes possible to switch lanes on the main roads without struggling and having to deal with cars aggressively filling any space you would have needed.

Is it xenophobia, or are the people who fail to get themselves a Swiss licence plate simply not fitting in well enough?

Fitting in by speaking the dialect is a good idea, but if you're German and start trying to speak Swiss German, people will either think you are ruining their dialect or they will think you are making fun of it. The best way to go is apparently speaking standard German but understanding Swiss German. Many people do manage to fit in that way, but of course they are still recognized as foreigners. In Germany, we simply don't care if someone is Swiss or German. In Switzerland, it has a great implication. If you say you are not treated as a foreigner, I wonder, what do you think of people who treat anyone "as a foreigner"? The whole idea of "treating someone as a foreigner" is an unknown concept to anyone I would ever want to have anything to do with.

I always find the Francophobia of conservatives hilarious. Basically, the French represent everything conservatives fear: an intelligent, well-educated electorate that, isn't afraid of complex issues, votes it progressive values, actually thinks about the future, doesn't allow the rich to take away their rights (even to the point of taking to the streets and rioting), and rejects the stupidities of conservative demagoguery.

Oh, and has superior cuisine, I forgot to mention that.

head of joaquin said:

I always find the Francophobia of conservatives hilarious. Basically, the French represent everything conservatives fear: an intelligent, well-educated electorate that, isn't afraid of complex issues, votes it progressive values, actually thinks about the future, doesn't allow the rich to take away their rights (even to the point of taking to the streets and rioting), and rejects the stupidities of conservative demagoguery.

Oh, and has superior cuisine, I forgot to mention that.

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you know i am sure if you would setup your own ticket fund, we on the forum would chip in and give you that one way ticket to France.