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Thread: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do you read the founders......democracy is no where in the founding documents, the founders hate democracy. democracy is the most vile form of government--james madsion
    Later Madison thought that federalism was the most vile form of government because it was too much like a monarchy and joined with Jefferson to become a democrat.


    article 4 Section. 4. of the U.S CONSTITUTION

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.

    i want republican government, , mixed government where power is divided between the people and the states...like the founders created.
    What you want is one thing, what you get is determined at the ballot box by the majority..aka...democracy. Personally, I don't want to be ruled by a minority...and if you read Madison's federalist essays in context, you'd find that he didn't either.

    so i need to look at a dictionary? why dont you look at the federalist papers...10 and 39, and 40 , where it states we are a mixed government.
    I have and still the word 'republic' simply means "no monarchy".

    wrong .........Adams was elected by the electoral college...that is not democracy.........if we were a democracy every federal position, would be directly elected...and it was not created that way, ....only the house was a direct vote of the people..not the senate or the president.
    If we elected every position and voted on every issue that would be called a "direct democracy". There are many kinds of democracy. Our country is a "representative democracy".

    but the constitution states free people... it does not state citizen, so thats how its being interpreted.......why are you acting as though i am wrong..i am telling you what they are doing..thats all
    correct.... it does not mention them by name, but the 14th was written for them...

    3/5 of a person is not a racial issue..its a tax and representation issue......the south wanted to count them as 1 person for representation.
    3/5 person is a slave issue. A slave issue IS a racial issue. The forefathers believed the institution of slavery would soon end and didn't want to give it any legitimacy by putting the word "slave" in the constitution. So they called them "other persons".

    no...... i said the constitution states free people in the census, and said government is counting them in the census becuase of that wording... no.......the 15th it was ratified in 1870....3/5 is in the original constitution of 1787.....no .......its say a person cannot be denied the vote becuase of a former servitude...IE.. slavery...why i told you it was ......written for black people..the 14th amendment made them u.s. citizens, before the civil war there are only .....state citizens.
    The 14th amendment, section 2, states that if any male over the age of 21 inhabiting a state is denied the right to vote, then the numbers counted for representation should be reduced accordingly.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourte...s_Constitution

    Illegal immigrants are not citizens and are not allowed to vote, but the states ARE counting them to get more representation in government. That is unconstitutional as per the 14th amendment. That is the point and only point I have been trying to make.


    wrong, ......people have gone to court in early america, just average citizens, who were denied the vote, ...but they had voted before.

    the court ruled.....if you didnt own property of pay taxes you didn't vote, the founders wanted people who have a stake in america

    one case i am stating..... is about a man who sold all of his property and was no longer paying taxes on it, the court ruled since he sold them off he no longer had a vote....until he owned land and paid taxes again.
    The 14th and 15th amendment remedied that problem, did it not?

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Later Madison thought that federalism was the most vile form of government because it was too much like a monarchy and joined with Jefferson to become a democrat.

    Madison was a federalist but became a anti-federalist after the alien and seduction act, which he opposed, and spoke out against and stated that the federal government has no authority over rights at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    What you want is one thing, what you get is determined at the ballot box by the majority..aka...democracy. Personally, I don't want to be ruled by a minority...and if you read Madison's federalist essays in context, you'd find that he didn't either.
    in republican government there is no majority or minority rule, becuase power is divide in (2), some no one person, group or people rule over another, democracy concentrates power into one entity and that one entity will become tyrannical, becuase it has all the power, which is why the founders hate all democracies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I have and still the word 'republic' simply means "no monarchy".
    the us. is a federal republic, with republican government, ...democracy is democratic.

    both systems of government have people voting, however in republican government which is a higher form of government, the people do not have all direct power only half.



    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If we elected every position and voted on every issue that would be called a "direct democracy". There are many kinds of democracy. Our country is a "representative democracy".
    a direct democracy is where the people vote and instruct their government what to do.

    a representative democracy is where the people vote and their representatives instruct government what to do.

    democracy means majority rule...something the founders hated.

    when you read the founders will will see the founders hate representative democracy, john Adams works #6 is good place to read this.

    the founders did not want power all direct power into the people hands becuase that is dangerous...........anyone can be a tyrant, if given all power, even the people thru majority rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    3/5 person is a slave issue. A slave issue IS a racial issue. The forefathers believed the institution of slavery would soon end and didn't want to give it any legitimacy by putting the word "slave" in the constitution. So they called them "other persons".
    3/5 is about will the slaves be counted as a full person for representation purpose and taxes..........taxes which the south was paying most of for the federal government

    the south wants to count them as 1, and the north stated if they are 1, then they must be a full person, the south then called them property..a compromise was reached, so we would have a constitution

    if they would have been counted as 1 , the south would have dominated the house, and controlled it, and the civil war would have never happened.

    the founders sought to end slavery by outlawing the importation of slaves in 1808, and during constitution only 3 states wanted slavery, the founders believe in would end with there deaths.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The 14th amendment, section 2, states that if any male over the age of 21 inhabiting a state is denied the right to vote, then the numbers counted for representation should be reduced accordingly.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourte...s_Constitution

    Illegal immigrants are not citizens and are not allowed to vote, but the states ARE counting them to get more representation in government. That is unconstitutional as per the 14th amendment. That is the point and only point I have been trying to make.
    is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    well i dont read it that way, ........i read it.. if the state denies male inhabitants of such State, and [citizens of the United States (slaves)] are in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime he basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens[/B] shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    citizens in the 14th amendment means slaves...when it was written.

    but your right illegals are not citizens,....... however under the founders voting is not a right, so if you say voting is a right............. then does not right then pertain to illegals since they are people too?

    an illegal has the right, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has he not?...or are these rights only exclusive to Americans?.......this is why saying voting is a right screws things up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The 14th and 15th amendment remedied that problem, did it not?
    the purpose of the 14th was to give slaves rights per the BOR, privileges and immunities, due process, and that they could not be discriminated against by governments

    the 15th says no person, but meaning slaves, could be denied the vote because of race, color or being a former slave.

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill - David Rogers - POLITICO.com



    besides the obvious fact that some of the rules in this food stamp bill targets new york and California, how does cantor think that this bill's controversial cuts and provision will survive if the house goes into conference with the senate.

    the senate and house variations of the farm bill are miles apart, not to mention that house separated the food stamp and farm subsidies were split into two separate bills, while the senate covers both issues in the same bill.
    This nonsense is nothing more than a nameless check with attached regulations that's being called a "food stamp bill" just to make it sound like sunshine and rainbows.... This bill is pretty much nothing more than a payout with new laws.

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    When a state counts illegal immigrants as US citizens they are getting more representation than they deserve. And it's usually the rural states....

    Census nonsense - Los Angeles Times
    I was under the impression that it was California that was counting illegals in their population and the "rural" States were trying to limit their illegal population.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Regardless, we should have the representatives in the House determined by the number of citizens in each State especially now that Federal taxes are not proportionally raised between the States.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I was under the impression that it was California that was counting illegals in their population and the "rural" States were trying to limit their illegal population.
    It was my impression that all the states with large illegal immigrant populations are counting them as "citizens", not just California. The farmers in rural states actually want immigration reform because they need the labor to pick the crops and they're getting tired of the uncertainty in the laws. The ones that don't want it are tea party hacks who were elected in a one horse towns by a minority of whites. They can see the writing on the wall....as soon immigrants are legal citizens and allowed to vote they're gonna be history.

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It was my impression that all the states with large illegal immigrant populations are counting them as "citizens", not just California. The farmers in rural states actually want immigration reform because they need the labor to pick the crops and they're getting tired of the uncertainty in the laws. The ones that don't want it are tea party hacks who were elected in a one horse towns by a minority of whites. They can see the writing on the wall....as soon immigrants are legal citizens and allowed to vote they're gonna be history.
    See, here we go.

    On the very first page of this thread you said this, "Why, so we can watch people beg for food on every corner?". Now you say farmers want immigration reform because they "need the labor". Lets see, if we did away with food stamps, welfare, housing and all the other freebies, what's one of the things you think would happen?

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    See, here we go.

    On the very first page of this thread you said this, "Why, so we can watch people beg for food on every corner?". Now you say farmers want immigration reform because they "need the labor". Lets see, if we did away with food stamps, welfare, housing and all the other freebies, what's one of the things you think would happen?
    Did you read the entire thread or just the first and last page?

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Did you read the entire thread or just the first and last page?
    I asked first.

    But the correct answer to your question is neither. There is a couple of pages that just go tit for tat without any real points.

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    Re: Politico: House GOP takes another cut at food stamp bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Why, so we can watch people beg for food on every corner?
    Many people wouldn't beg; they'd turn to crime. If those who want to eliminate social safety nets ever get their way, the haves living in gated communities are in for a rude awakening.

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