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Thread: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanddune View Post
    What you don't realize is that the US with its wars is making the world a more dangerous and not a safer place. Do you really think the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the drone attacks in Pakistan, the disgusting conditions in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo have made the world a safer place? That idea is ludicrous.

    It's debatable whether Saddam's use of chemical weapons against Kurds would have justified a war in the 1980s. I don't know enough to tell. My point was that the US supported Saddam during his most evil time, so the idea that Iraq was attacked to liberate the people there from an evil dictator is pure hypocrisy.

    How many US servicemen got killed? And why did the US government have to produce faked evidence of WMDs to justify an attack if it was about defending US bases in the middle east?
    I suspect not seeing things through as Obama has pulled the pug in Iraq early, will create additional problems for the world just as not completing the job during Gulf War 1 did. Things didn't work out to well for us when we were not at war in Afghanistan but you are German and don't care. Although had the same happened on your turf, your government would expect and get real help from us instead of token support. Conditions in Iraq prisons were disgusting before we got there, while we were there and are disgusting now that we are gone. Is there a point you are trying to make with that? Terrorists locked up in Guantanamo have neither planned nor carried out any missions of terror. I don't see that as a bad thing, why do you? Drone attacks in Pakistan kill terrorists. It is unfortune that some mistakes are made but the terrorists are the ones that hide behind the skirts of women. Talk to them about keeping their distance from people not involved in the terror game. The US didn't produce "faked" evidence of WMD. Talk to Saddam about that, it was his plan.

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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanddune View Post
    Schröder, Chirac, and Putin were not on a team with Sadam just because they didn't support the idea of a US invasion. Can we get over that "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality? And as I'm sure you know, Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction, and the "evidence" was an American fake. The UN inspectors (you may remember the name Hans Blix) did NOT call for an attack on Iraq. It was an American decision to attack, and the WMDs were a pretext.
    I did not call it a "team". Because you are right. It was not a "team". It was an informal social group.

    Also it is not a question, as you would have it, of "if you're not with us you're against us". To assume such, is childish. But informal social groups often do semi coordinated things that cause others to believe things on which they act. This is one of those cases. As we cannot view the documents nor hear the tapes, we do not know, why these people acted as they did. But it is clear, that Saddam thought he could survive the ambiguity, because he thought the Axis would save his arse.

    PS: Some say the evidence was "faked". I personally have not seen documentary evidence of this. Sloppy intelligence yes. "Lie"? No. Certain people will say it was lying. I think they are talking through their hats. What is certain, however, is the fact, that the UN inspectors after the first Iraq engagement had found large stores of WMD and Saddam could or would not show, what had become of them, when he was asked to by the SC. As he did not show how he had destroyed them, it was perfectly logical to assume they could still be there. Had he believed Bush would remove him, the probability would have been better, that he would have shown the inspectors, where the weapons had gone. As it was, Putin, Chirac and Schröder made him believe it was not necessary and history took its course.

    PPS: Blix was, as you may remember not willing to say that the weapons were gone, when Blaire asked him point blank. He fudged. Blix was a bureaucrat and totally overwhelmed by his visibility.

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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    I'm not aware if these released inmates are the innocent or guilty ones.
    How would you know? How many of them have received a free and fair trial?
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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    How would you know? How many of them have received a free and fair trial?
    Not even sure that we know they have been released.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Not even sure that we know they have been released.
    I concur with your scepticism.
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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I concur with your scepticism.
    I'm skeptical about your concurrence.
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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I'm skeptical about your concurrence.
    If you spell it with a 'k' it doesn't count.
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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I did not call it a "team". Because you are right. It was not a "team". It was an informal social group.

    Also it is not a question, as you would have it, of "if you're not with us you're against us". To assume such, is childish. But informal social groups often do semi coordinated things that cause others to believe things on which they act. This is one of those cases. As we cannot view the documents nor hear the tapes, we do not know, why these people acted as they did. But it is clear, that Saddam thought he could survive the ambiguity, because he thought the Axis would save his arse.

    PS: Some say the evidence was "faked". I personally have not seen documentary evidence of this. Sloppy intelligence yes. "Lie"? No. Certain people will say it was lying. I think they are talking through their hats. What is certain, however, is the fact, that the UN inspectors after the first Iraq engagement had found large stores of WMD and Saddam could or would not show, what had become of them, when he was asked to by the SC. As he did not show how he had destroyed them, it was perfectly logical to assume they could still be there. Had he believed Bush would remove him, the probability would have been better, that he would have shown the inspectors, where the weapons had gone. As it was, Putin, Chirac and Schröder made him believe it was not necessary and history took its course.

    PPS: Blix was, as you may remember not willing to say that the weapons were gone, when Blaire asked him point blank. He fudged. Blix was a bureaucrat and totally overwhelmed by his visibility.
    Defend the Iraq war as much as you want but it's simply absurd to say that Bush was forced into it by Schröder, Chirac, and Putin. And it's equally absurd to see some sort of "informal social group", axis of whatever, secret alliance, or anything else between Schröder, Chirac, and Saddam.

    The Iraq war was wanted by the Bush administration and it was started by the Bush administration under pretexts. "sloppy intelligence"... call it that if you want, but there was certainly a purpose behind the sloppiness.
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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Conditions in Iraq prisons were disgusting before we got there, while we were there and are disgusting now that we are gone. Is there a point you are trying to make with that? Terrorists locked up in Guantanamo have neither planned nor carried out any missions of terror. I don't see that as a bad thing, why do you? Drone attacks in Pakistan kill terrorists. It is unfortune that some mistakes are made but the terrorists are the ones that hide behind the skirts of women. Talk to them about keeping their distance from people not involved in the terror game.
    Yes there is a point I am trying to make with that. All of those things produce a lot more terrorism than they prevent. And besides that, the US have been pissing on our common values since 9/11. How credible do you think it is whenever the US government talks about human rights these days?
    Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words.

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    Re: US releases prisoners from Guantanamo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanddune View Post
    Defend the Iraq war as much as you want but it's simply absurd to say that Bush was forced into it by Schröder, Chirac, and Putin. And it's equally absurd to see some sort of "informal social group", axis of whatever, secret alliance, or anything else between Schröder, Chirac, and Saddam.

    The Iraq war was wanted by the Bush administration and it was started by the Bush administration under pretexts. "sloppy intelligence"... call it that if you want, but there was certainly a purpose behind the sloppiness.
    I would not say he was forced. But it would have been very bad for the US after saying he would invade not to do so.

    And yes again. The administration wanted to take out an enemy in the area. Iran was discussed as an alternative. But Saddam screamed: "Here!"

    And no. I think we could have forced Saddam with other means.

    But once Bush had committed, Schröder/Chirac/Putin had him. They knew he could not back down. They needed only convince Saddam he was safe.

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