Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
You tried to rephrase what you said, I was just recalling your words to you.

No I did not. I said exactly the same thing earlier. You were trying to play a game. Either way it means exactly the same thing and has nothing to do with what you accused me of saying. Again nice try.

TacticalEvilDan said:
In order: Jesus, on the subject of the last judgement, not on turning away unrepentant sinners; John; Paul. None of those are an answer to my question, especially seeing as how Jesus never said two of them and the first was dealing with a whole other subject.

Well how about direct quotes?

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

2 John 1:10-11 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

You can pretend I did not answer, but we know the truth.

They are an exact answer to your question, your denial is nothing but a smoke screen.

TacticalEvilDan said:
But yes, by all means, forget all about the question if it pleases you.

I have not only shown that you are wrong. I have answered every question put to me. Another lie.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
No I did not. I said exactly the same thing earlier. You were trying to play a game. Either way it means exactly the same thing and has nothing to do with what you accused me of saying. Again nice try.

No, it doesn't mean the same thing, and you have yet to show me where Jesus told you to turn away from them.

Black Manta said:
Well how about direct quotes?

You mean direct quotes that weren't spoken by Jesus?

Black Manta said:
You can pretend I did not answer, but we know the truth.

They are an exact answer to your question, your denial is nothing but a smoke screen.

I have asked you for the words of Jesus on the subject. You have failed to provide them.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
No, it doesn't mean the same thing, and you have yet to show me where Jesus told you to turn away from them.

Yes it does, I said it. I think I known what I said better than you as you can't even keep up with your own comments.

Ummmm... John was an apostle that traveled with Jesus, and knew him. He said it as did Paul.

TacticalEvilDan said:
You mean direct quotes that weren't spoken by Jesus?

Only buy a guy that saw him and talked to him and another that traveled with him. But hey, what do they know?

So in other words you really got nothing and are trying to save face... Nice.

TacticalEvilDan said:
I have asked you for the words of Jesus on the subject. You have failed to provide them.

Because Jesus, did not mention allot of things. His apostles did.

Matthew 28:16-20 16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

But heck what do they know?

Jesus did not mention pedophilia, but we still know it's bad. That whole "well Jesus didn't say it" smack is just that.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
Ummmm... John was an apostle that traveled with Jesus, and knew him. He said it as did Paul.

Only buy a guy that saw him and talked to him and another that traveled with him. But hey, what do they know?

So in other words you really got nothing and are trying to save face... Nice.

Because Jesus, did not mention allot of things. His apostles did.

Look, I asked you a simple, straightforward question. It isn't my fault if you can't answer it.

Black Manta said:
Matthew 28:16-20 16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Yet another quote which doesn't answer the question.

Black Manta said:
Jesus did not mention pedophilia, but we still know it's bad. That whole "well Jesus didn't say it" smack is just that.

Yeah, and speeding, and drunk driving, and a whole lot of other things. This is different. Jesus went looking for the lost so he could bring them back to the fold, while you're self-righteously trying to justify turning the lost away at the door. It is your belief that contradicts not only Jesus' teachings but his very actions. It is you who are trying to save face.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
Look, I asked you a simple, straightforward question. It isn't my fault if you can't answer it.

Yet another quote which doesn't answer the question.

No. You are just avoiding the answer because you don't like it.

TacticalEvilDan said:
Yeah, and speeding, and drunk driving, and a whole lot of other things. This is different. Jesus went looking for the lost so he could bring them back to the fold, while you're self-righteously trying to justify turning the lost away at the door. It is your belief that contradicts not only Jesus' teachings but his very actions. It is you who are trying to save face.

Again you are confusing a sinner to an unrepentant sinner. Do I need to get out a dictionary? Because so far your whole argument is not much more than an uneducated guess based on a novice understanding of scripture. Jesus did not tell the adulterer he saved to go forth and sin some more. He said "go forth and sin no more." If you continue to do the same thing in complete and utter disregard for God's law after being shown multiple times it is a sin. Then you have shown you don't believe in Christ or his teaching, and would rather be of this world. End of story.

You could not even figure out that the quote just posted had nothing to do with your question and was to show the authority given to the apostles.

PS When we examine the Biblical account, we find Jesus associating with converts and seekers. We certainly do not see Him “hanging out” in taverns with unrepentant sinners. You are basically trying to use the same definition of sinner as the pharisees used.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
No. You are just avoiding the answer because you don't like it.

If that's what it takes for you to live with the fact that you can't answer the question, fine, whatever.

Black Manta said:
Again you are confusing a sinner to an unrepentant sinner. Do I need to get out a dictionary? Because so far your whole argument is not much more than an uneducated guess based on a novice understanding of scripture. Jesus did not tell the adulterer he saved to go forth and sin some more. He said "go forth and sin no more." If you continue to do the same thing in complete and utter disregard for God's after being shown multiple times it is a sin. Then you have shown you don't believe in Christ or his teaching, and would rather be of this world. End of story.

With each of the lost sinners: he went to them, spoke to them, moved their hearts, and admonished them to give up their sin. If that's the length that the son of god will go to, what on earth makes you think it's Christian to turn away the lost sinner when they come to a church? How can you possibly draw the conclusion that that's acceptable in the face of Jesus' example? For that matter, how is the sinner to be moved to repentance when those who have been saved are turning their backs?

Black Manta said:
You could not even figure out that the quote just posted had nothing to do with your question and was to show the authority given to the apostles.

I stopped as soon as I saw the source of the quote because it wasn't Jesus talking. That was all I needed to know, since my question involved Jesus, not his followers.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
If that's what it takes for you to live with the fact that you can't answer the question, fine, whatever.

I did answer it. Jesus said nothing about it. His apostles did who he gave authority to.

TacticalEvilDan said:
With each of the lost sinners: he went to them, spoke to them, moved their hearts, and admonished them to give up their sin. If that's the length that the son of god will go to, what on earth makes you think it's Christian to turn away the lost sinner when they come to a church? How can you possibly draw the conclusion that that's acceptable in the face of Jesus' example? For that matter, how is the sinner to be moved to repentance when those who have been saved are turning their backs?

In every case they were seeking him out or already his follower. The one's who were not Christians, notice they came for him?

TacticalEvilDan said:
I stopped as soon as I saw the source of the quote because it wasn't Jesus talking. That was all I needed to know, since my question involved Jesus, not his followers.

So in other words you know as little about Jesus as you do of the Bible, as that was the words of Christ. It was Jesus talking. :doh

I think after that kind of snafu, you need to just quit.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
I did answer it. Jesus said nothing about it.

Finally. Thank you.

Black Manta said:
In every case they were seeking him out or already his follower.

Absolutely not. The adulteress who was about to be stoned to death didn't seek him out. She couldn't seek him out, she was brought to him. The tax collector climbed into a tree to get a look at Jesus, and Jesus called him down and invited himself over to the collector's house. That aside, Jesus didn't stay in one place and wait for others to come to him, he went forth to meet people, to expose them to him and his teachings. It seems like the least that someone following his example could do would be to keep the church door open, figuratively speaking of course.

Black Manta said:
So in other words you know as little about Jesus as you do of the Bible, as that was the words of Christ. It was Jesus talking. :doh

I think after that kind of snafu, you need to just quit.

I will freely admit that I was agitated enough that I posted before I thought, and on that occasion I was wrong. You had posted so many quotes that either had nothing to do with what Jesus said or had nothing to do with the question I asked or both that I forgot the reason I had dismissed that particular one. I dismissed it because it had nothing to do with the question I asked. Thanks for bringing my attention to that mistake so I could correct it.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
Finally. Thank you.

Why did you cut this out? His apostles did who he gave authority to. To save yourself embarrassment?

TacticalEvilDan said:
Absolutely not. The adulteress who was about to be stoned to death didn't seek him out. She couldn't seek him out, she was brought to him. The tax collector climbed into a tree to get a look at Jesus, and Jesus called him down and invited himself over to the collector's house. That aside, Jesus didn't stay in one place and wait for others to come to him, he went forth to meet people, to expose them to him and his teachings. It seems like the least that someone following his example could do would be to keep the church door open, figuratively speaking of course.

Notice what I highlighted. They came to him. He was not "hanging out" with anyone who was unrepentant. He was hanging out with people seeking him out and converts. Not in the bar with unrepentant sinners etc.

Again you are still confusing sinners seeking salvation to unrepentant sinners. Get your definitions correct.

If someone came in and wanted to become a Christian, no problem no matter what they did before. If they come in and want to keep doing the same sin? Sorry, can't have that. The point is to accept Christ and "sin no more" not to accept Christ and keep on sinning. This shows you do not accept God's word, period. Now we all sin, this is not the issue. We all can be forgiven, this again is not the issue. How many times can you commit the same sin over and over and be repentant?

TacticalEvilDan said:
I will freely admit that I was agitated enough that I posted before I thought, and on that occasion I was wrong. You had posted so many quotes that either had nothing to do with what Jesus said or had nothing to do with the question I asked or both that I forgot the reason I had dismissed that particular one. I dismissed it because it had nothing to do with the question I asked. Thanks for bringing my attention to that mistake so I could correct it.

Every quote I posted had everything to do with your question. You do not want to accept the authority given to apostles etc. The fact of the matter is you don't know. You want to try and tell Christians to only accept part of the Bible as your limited view see's it rather as the complete book it is.

Here is the funniest part. Jesus wrote not one single word in the Bible, not one. So you are willing to trust the Apostles to write down what he said, but nothing else. Yes that makes sense. :lol:

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
Why did you cut this out? His apostles did who he gave authority to. To save yourself embarrassment?

No, because it didn't answer the question.

Black Manta said:
Notice what I highlighted. They came to him. He was not "hanging out" with anyone who was unrepentant. He was hanging out with people seeking him out and converts. Not in the bar with unrepentant sinners etc.

You keep ignoring that Jesus was the son of god himself, who healed the sick and called a dead man forth from his tomb. I imagine that such a fellow was pretty persuasive, hence the converts. We, on the other hand:

1) Are but poor facsimiles, so we can't be expected to be as persuasive
2) We do not know the future, so we don't know who might at some point in the future repent
3) We can not see into the hearts of men, so an unrepentant sinner looks much the same as one who would like to repent but thinks they're beyond salvage.

As such, the closest we could follow his example is to leave the door open and serve as a good example to all. You can't be that example if you turn those who most need your example away.

Black Manta said:
Every quote I posted had everything to do with your question.

No, it didn't. I asked a specific question and you failed time after time to answer it.

Black Manta said:
Here is the funniest part. Jesus wrote not one single word in the Bible, not one. So you are willing to trust the Apostles to write down what he said, but nothing else. Yes that makes sense. :lol:

No, but I'm speaking to and about people who did trust the Apostles to write down what he said, so for the sake of the discussion I've assumed that they got it right.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
No, because it didn't answer the question.

Simple dodge. :lol:

TacticalEvilDan said:
You keep ignoring that Jesus was the son of god himself, who healed the sick and called a dead man forth from his tomb. I imagine that such a fellow was pretty persuasive, hence the converts. We, on the other hand:

1) Are but poor facsimiles, so we can't be expected to be as persuasive
2) We do not know the future, so we don't know who might at some point in the future repent
3) We can not see into the hearts of men, so an unrepentant sinner looks much the same as one who would like to repent but thinks they're beyond salvage.

Who said a unrepentant sinner could not come back if they truly did repent? At that point they can be forgiven. We are not talking about people who are repentant. Let's be honest here. We are talking about homoseuxals. Most have chosen to stay with the lifestyle. this is not a comment on if it's a choice or not, just as it involves sin. If they continue to practice homsexuality, they are not repentent. End of story. Now if later on they decide to become celibate or something like that. Then in that case they are repentant and could be welcomed into the fold. You do not let in someone who is unrepentant in the hope they will change as it will probably not happen. In the case of sexual attraction even less of a chance.

You are basically saying let in everyone even if practicing sin in the hope they will convert. No such silliness exists in the Bible.

TacticalEvilDan said:
As such, the closest we could follow his example is to leave the door open and serve as a good example to all. You can't be that example if you turn those who most need your example away.

The most needed will come when called, and only then. It's called faith.

TacticalEvilDan said:
No, it didn't. I asked a specific question and you failed time after time to answer it.

I will repeat it again since you want to ignore it...

Jesus wrote not one single word in the Bible, not one. So you are willing to trust the Apostles to write down what he said, but nothing else. Yes that makes sense.

TacticalEvilDan said:
No, but I'm speaking to and about people who did trust the Apostles to write down what he said, so for the sake of the discussion I've assumed that they got it right.

And that they got everything else wrong. Absolutely understood. This is why your argument continues to fail.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
Simple dodge. :lol:

Yeah, damn, screw me for focusing on the question I actually asked, right?

Black Manta said:
Who said a unrepentant sinner could not come back if they truly did repent? At that point they can be forgiven.

We aren't talking about forgiveness, though. Of course you have to repent to get that. We're talking about allowing them to show up and maybe just maybe be influenced by what they see and hear.

Black Manta said:
We are not talking about people who are repentant. Let's be honest here.

We are talking about people who you think are not repentant. You can't see hearts and you can't see the future.

Black Manta said:
We are talking about homoseuxals.

No, we're talking about those who you think are not repentant. Or at least those are the words you keep returning to. Let's not move the goal-posts now.

Black Manta said:
You are basically saying let in everyone even if practicing sin in the hope they will convert. No such silliness exists in the Bible.

I'm saying you can't serve as an example or invite sinners to repent if you keep them away from you. If your argument was that it's reasonable for a church to keep out those would disrupt proceedings or are a threat to the congregation, okay, I could see what you mean, but that isn't what you're saying.

Black Manta said:
The most needed will come when called, and only then. It's called faith.

How do you know they aren't being called to show up and see the way they should be living?

Black Manta said:
I will repeat it again since you want to ignore it...

Jesus wrote not one single word in the Bible, not one. So you are willing to trust the Apostles to write down what he said, but nothing else. Yes that makes sense.

I didn't ignore it. Please do not lie about me.

Black Manta said:
And that they got everything else wrong. Absolutely understood. This is why your argument continues to fail.

They were people with their own opinions. That's why I asked for the words of Jesus Christ. Since, you know, we're talking about Christian churches.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
Yeah, damn, screw me for focusing on the question I actually asked, right?

Hey not my fault you don't know your Bible.

TacticalEvilDan said:
We aren't talking about forgiveness, though. Of course you have to repent to get that. We're talking about allowing them to show up and maybe just maybe be influenced by what they see and hear.

Again you are confused. An unrepentant sinner either...

a. Believes they are not sinning and think it's OK even though the Bible says different.
b. Someone who knows it's wrong but does not care.

How would letting them be members of the church change anything?

TacticalEvilDan said:
We are talking about people who you think are not repentant. You can't see hearts and you can't see the future.

No we are not. This has nothing to do with me or my view. This is what the Bible says. Stop making this about me. It has nothing to do with me or my beliefs.

TacticalEvilDan said:
No, we're talking about those who you think are not repentant. Or at least those are the words you keep returning to. Let's not move the goal-posts now.

Again I am simply stating what the Bible says. This is not about me. Get that into your head.

TacticalEvilDan said:
I'm saying you can't serve as an example or invite sinners to repent if you keep them away from you. If your argument was that it's reasonable for a church to keep out those would disrupt proceedings or are a threat to the congregation, okay, I could see what you mean, but that isn't what you're saying.

I AGAIN am not saying anything. The Bible says this is what we as Christians are supposed to do.

TacticalEvilDan said:
How do you know they aren't being called to show up and see the way they should be living?

A gay couple shows up to church. Attends a couple of services and remain a gay couple. At what point would you consider them unrepentant? 1 day? 1 week? 1 year? They actually have laws set down in the Bible for this situation. If they continue to do what they are doing after counseling etc, they are cast out.

TacticalEvilDan said:
I didn't ignore it. Please do not lie about me.

I apologies.

TacticalEvilDan said:
They were people with their own opinions. That's why I asked for the words of Jesus Christ. Since, you know, we're talking about Christian churches.

The Apostles where tasked with setting up the "churches" and given all authority in God's name according to Christ. Sorry you can't wiggle your way out of that with your nonsense. Either you accept they are telling the truth, or they are lying and everything is suspect.

Again this is why your argument continues to fail.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
Again you are confused. An unrepentant sinner either...

a. Believes they are not sinning and think it's OK even though the Bible says different.
b. Someone who knows it's wrong but does not care.

How would letting them be members of the church change anything?

The same way that hanging out in the wrong places or with the wrong people leads to bad choices or behaviors.

Black Manta said:
No we are not. This has nothing to do with me or my view. This is what the Bible says. Stop making this about me. It has nothing to do with me or my beliefs.

Okay.

Black Manta said:
The Apostles where tasked with setting up the "churches" and given all authority in God's name according to Christ. Sorry you can't wiggle your way out of that nonsense. Either you accept they are telling the truth, or they are lying and everything is suspect.

again this is why your argument continues to fail.

Okay, let's say the apostles had all that authority. As best I could tell, none of the quotations of theirs you pointed me to prohibits an unrepentant sinner from entering a place of worship, or tells the faithful to bar access to places of worship.

ecofarm · Jul 28, 2013

Mr.Nick said:
It depends on how they're doing it..

If they're aggressive towards me I will knock them out - as I would any individual that is aggressive towards me.

I don't go out and look for trouble but many single issue idiots do.

If someone was "aggressive" about Jesus, would you attack them?

Your Star · Jul 28, 2013

digsbe said:
I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity. Desmond Tutu is ignorant and has no idea the level of suffering that awaits unless they repent.

I think it's ridiculous to think that a loving and merciful God would send people to eternal hell for simply not believing in the right thing. Makes no sense for God to do, but it does make sense for people to make that stipulation up in order for them to gain membership into their religion.

Your Star · Jul 28, 2013

digsbe said:
Or willfully deceived as are many Christians that want to go with the world, reject truth, and approve of homosexuality. Doesn't matter what they think, when stacked with Biblical truth they are wrong, and the majority of the time their conclusion is based on selfish motives because they want homosexuality to not be a sin (and one person's beliefs/wants does not change those of God's). If he professes to be a Bible believing Christian yet ignores or tries to contort the Bible to say that God approves of homosexuality then he is ignorant and likely willfully deceived.

How do you know YOU aren't the one being willfully deceived?

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

TacticalEvilDan said:
The same way that hanging out in the wrong places or with the wrong people leads to bad choices or behaviors.

I don't know. Again only going by what the Bible says.

TacticalEvilDan said:
Okay, let's say the apostles had all that authority. As best I could tell, none of the quotations of theirs you pointed me to prohibits an unrepentant sinner from entering a place of worship, or tells the faithful to bar access to places of worship.

If they are told to bar them from their homes and not even offer a greeting, food, etc? Do you think God's house would be any more appropriate?

I understand what you are saying, but if something is a known quantity as opposed to unknown. I will err on the biblical side every time. In other words if the church does not know, I don't think biblically any problem would exist. If they did however...

Immorality makes a church unclean...

1 Corinthians 5:1–8 5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Immorality Must Be Judged by men...

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner— not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Like I said I see your point, the Bible however is clear.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

Your Star said:
I think it's ridiculous to think that a loving and merciful God would send people to eternal hell for simply not believing in the right thing. Makes no sense for God to do, but it does make sense for people to make that stipulation up in order for them to gain membership into their religion.

That is the whole point Your Star. It was and is about believing and doing the right thing according to God's law.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

Your Star said:
How do you know YOU aren't the one being willfully deceived?

We may be. We however have faith in Christ's teachings. I will err on the side of God & Christ every time.

Your Star · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
That is the whole point Your Star. It was and is about believing and doing the right thing according to God's law.

So someone who lives a good life, who is good to the people around them, gives to charity, volunteers in their community, and in essence follows all of Christ's teachings, yet is an atheist is going to hell? How does that make sense? How does that come from a loving and caring God? It seems so petty, and so wrong.

Your Star · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
We may be. We however have faith in Christ's teachings. I will err on the side of God & Christ every time.

No, you will err on what you were taught to be Christ, and God's teachings, big difference.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Black Manta said:
If they are told to bar them from their homes and not even offer a greeting, food, etc? Do you think God's house would be any more appropriate?

Actually, yeah. You don't eat or sleep or live in god's house, you go there to worship, the very thing a lost sinner would need to see the most.

Black Manta said:
1 Corinthians 5:1–8 5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So ... murder Oedipus? Did I read that right?

Black Manta said:
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner— not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”[/b]

This actually seems to contradict your point, when we're talking about sinners who are not part of the body of Christ.

TacticalEvilDan · Jul 28, 2013

Your Star said:
So someone who lives a good life, who is good to the people around them, gives to charity, volunteers in their community, and in essence follows all of Christ's teachings, yet is an atheist is going to hell? How does that make sense? How does that come from a loving and caring God? It seems so petty, and so wrong.

That's exactly why I'm an apatheist.

Black Dog · Jul 28, 2013

Your Star said:
So someone who lives a good life, who is good to the people around them, gives to charity, volunteers in their community, and in essence follows all of Christ's teachings, yet is an atheist is going to hell? How does that make sense? How does that come from a loving and caring God? It seems so petty, and so wrong.

It is what Jesus himself said...

"Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

I do not know the mind of God outside of what the Bible teaches. So all I can say is have faith and follow the teachings.

Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

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King Of The Dog Pound

Shankmasta Killa

King Of The Dog Pound

Shankmasta Killa

King Of The Dog Pound

Shankmasta Killa

King Of The Dog Pound

Shankmasta Killa

King Of The Dog Pound

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King Of The Dog Pound

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