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Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

For as long as internet gay marriage debates have raged I think I've seen the same two or three passages from the bible that have been interpreted to mean that homosexuality is a sin. The passages on tolerance? Those tend to get glossed over.

I've seen them, too... so I've done some extensive studying of these passages... articles, books, documentaries. They do not mean what they have been presented to mean... not at all.
 
Murders, perhaps not, but adulterers??? I'd guess that there are MANY adulterers that go to church every week.

You're probably right and I've seen adulterers kicked out of churches, before.
 
Well Desmond, I remember an old billboard sign....

"If in heaven we don't meet,
Remember
BURMA SHAVE
beats the heat!"



See, I'd put it a little differently myself... if I arrive in Heaven and discover that homosexuals are allowed in.... I'll be pleasantly surprised to have been wrong and I certainly won't demand to be sent elsewhere! :mrgreen:
 
You're probably right and I've seen adulterers kicked out of churches, before.

OK... church/temple has changed since I was little. Never saw that.
 
No, you have failed each time to demonstrate that any kind of universal truth other than your OWN universal truth... which isn't universal truth, exists. Your opinion is not fact, but opinion... and THAT'S fact.

And I have demonstrated... as have others... as do most intelligent theologians who have studied the bible that it says nothing about homosexuality and nothing about consensual homosexual relations that have nothing to do with Pagan rituals.

So, in conclusion, you are incorrect and doing nothing but presenting an opinion as fact... which it isn't.

Yes, the Bible does forbid homosexuality:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
 
Yes, the Bible does forbid homosexuality:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

So is the rest of Leviticus cool too, or just the part you think is about homosexuals?
 
Yes, the Bible does forbid homosexuality:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Those quotes are not about homosexuality. They are part of the Purity Codes and are about God commanding the Hebrews to not preform acts that Pagans do during rituals. It has nothing to do with consensual homosexual relationships or behavior.
 
Actually, he's being a decent Christian.

No he's not. He is preaching a biblical lie. Saying oh I would rather be with unrepentant sinners is wrong from a Christian perspective according to our holy book.
 
I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity. Desmond Tutu is ignorant and has no idea the level of suffering that awaits unless they repent.

None of us have any such idea -- not just how much, but how little.
 
Yes, the Bible does forbid homosexuality:



Those quotes are not about homosexuality. They are part of the Purity Codes and are about God commanding the Hebrews to not preform acts that Pagans do during rituals. It has nothing to do with consensual homosexual relationships or behavior.

They're not? :rofl


oooooooooooooook!!
 
You probably didn't grow up in fire and brimstone Southern Baptist churches, either.

True. I didn't. Grew up in a conservative Temple.
 
They're not? :rofl


oooooooooooooook!!

If you knew about biblical interpretation in ancient Hebrew, the context of where these passages are located, and historical context, you would know this. I guess they don't teach this kind of accuracy in those fire and brimstone churches.
 
Those which don't aren't Christian churches.

So unrepentant sinners that we are as Christians told in no uncertain terms to keep a distance from, should now be allowed in to show we are Christian? Sorry that is ridicules.
 
If you knew about biblical interpretation in ancient Hebrew, the context of where these passages are located, and historical context, you would know this. I guess they don't teach this kind of accuracy in those fire and brimstone churches.

Feeling superior this evening?
 
Feeling superior this evening?

He is correct. Only sex involving penetration by the male phallus or sodomy is considered a sin in the OT. Lesbianism is not even mentioned in the OT.
 
So unrepentant sinners that we are as Christians told in no uncertain terms to keep a distance from, should now be allowed in to show we are Christian? Sorry that is ridicules.

Sin isn't a matter for men to judge, repentance or no repentance. I thought the Bible was pretty clear about that.
 
Sin isn't a matter for men to judge, repentance or no repentance. I thought the Bible was pretty clear about that.


that's about personal judgment, not about using the Bible itself to point out that the Word says "that is a sin"... otherwise there would be little point in preachers...
 
that's about personal judgment, not about using the Bible itself to point out that the Word says "that is a sin"... otherwise there would be little point in preachers...

Yes, and deciding whether or not someone is unrepentant or undeserving of entrance to a church is precisely that -- personal judgement.
 
Yes, and deciding whether or not someone is unrepentant or undeserving of entrance to a church is precisely that -- personal judgement.



Sigh. There's actually a very long and complicated and nuanced discussion involved there, which involves balancing scriptural admonitions to "be ye separate", "come ye out from among them", and "have no fellowship with darkness", vs engagement and so on.... but the short version is "no, it is actually a theological question not a personal judgment one'....
 
Sigh. There's actually a very long and complicated and nuanced discussion involved there, which involves balancing scriptural admonitions to "be ye separate", "come ye out from among them", and "have no fellowship with darkness", vs engagement and so on.... but the short version is "no, it is actually a theological question not a personal judgment one'....

Calling something sin is definitely a theological question. The rest of it is not. Furthermore, it would seem to me that someone whose relationship with god is not healthy (or at least not as healthy) is just the kind of someone a church would welcome with open arms, since that's exactly the kind of person Jesus would have tried to embrace and heal, no?
 
Yes, and deciding whether or not someone is unrepentant or undeserving of entrance to a church is precisely that -- personal judgement.

That is not what you said...

Those which don't aren't Christian churches. - TacticalEvilDan

You are confusing sinner with unrepentant sinner. We are all sinners, so that is not the point. Someone for instance who is an adulterer, who is not sorry and does not wish to ask forgiveness and will continue to live this way has abandoned Christ and his church. This has nothing to do with sitting in judgement. The Bible is clear. Now if this person was willing to ask forgiveness he/she would be welcomed back.

So again your view is ridicules.
 
Calling something sin is definitely a theological question. The rest of it is not. Furthermore, it would seem to me that someone whose relationship with god is not healthy (or at least not as healthy) is just the kind of someone a church would welcome with open arms, since that's exactly the kind of person Jesus would have tried to embrace and heal, no?

We are not Jesus. We try to emulate, but we are not him. We are not perfect or expected to be. This is why he died for us. How can you heal someone who wants to remain sick? They can in turn infect others.

This is why the Bible tells us literally to separate from the world and those people.

We are by your standards to accept devil worshipers. No, it is just stupid.
 
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