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Thread: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

  1. #181
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I'm really not kidding. I don't see any other way to read "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh." This is why I'm far more interested in what Jesus did than what he said, and why I'm far more interested in what he said than what his followers said.
    His followers wrote down what he said??? It is no difference. Either you believe it or you don't. Yes he is talking about spirituality handing the guy to Satan. Not killing him. Hence "destruction of the flesh" is not meant literally. Otherwise early Christians would have been throwing a multitude into the fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    So then you are not to judge them. If you can't judge them, how are you to decide to bar the way in to the church?
    Because they are not one of God's children. We are not to judge them because it would be pointless. We know they are not Christians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    My point being that you can't really know what God wants, no matter how much you want too.
    Which is why as I have been saying... We go by the Bible. It tells us as Christians what he wants. This is not a difficult concept.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #183
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Yeah, the "believe this, or you will spend an eternity in hell" is a good way to get followers for your religion, but not something I think God would actually do. Especially when religion is run by people, and trusting people for others salvation makes no sense.
    What can I tell you? The Bible says what it says.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Also you can't trust everything from the Bible, it was written by people, thousands of years ago, in 3 different languages from oral traditions, and edited over and over again. I can't believe that God would send one to hell for all eternity for not believing in a book with that many flaws.
    I do trust everything as do many, many others. It is the word of God.

    The book is flawless. In all it's translations with all it's different views. It takes you on a spiritual journey. The most amazing part is no matter which one you use or which translation you still end up at the same place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    His followers wrote down what he said??? It is no difference. Either you believe it or you don't.
    I assume accurate reporting for the sake of discussions with those who venerate the Bible. Still, even so assuming, someone'e behavior is always more telling than what they say, and what they say is always more telling than what is said by those who revere them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Yes he is talking about spirituality handing the guy to Satan. Not killing him. Hence "destruction of the flesh" is not meant literally. Otherwise early Christians would have been throwing a multitude into the fire.
    If "destruction of the flesh" doesn't mean what it says, then what else doesn't mean what it says? This gets down to the biggest problem I have with the Bible -- when is it literal and when is it not and when does it mean one thing when we think it means something totally different? What's literal and what's figurative and what has to be viewed through the lens of historical context?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Because they are not one of God's children. We are not to judge them because it would be pointless. We know they are not Christians.
    If you can't judge them, how are you to decide to bar the way in to the church?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Which is why as I have been saying... We go by the Bible. It tells us as Christians what he wants. This is not a difficult concept.
    And all I'm saying is that the Bible is a flawed book, filled with lies, and non-truths.
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I assume accurate reporting for the sake of discussions with those who venerate the Bible. Still, even so assuming, someone'e behavior is always more telling than what they say, and what they say is always more telling than what is said by those who revere them.
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If "destruction of the flesh" doesn't mean what it says, then what else doesn't mean what it says? This gets down to the biggest problem I have with the Bible -- when is it literal and when is it not and when does it mean one thing when we think it means something totally different? What's literal and what's figurative and what has to be viewed through the lens of historical context?
    We do have such a lens. It's called cross referencing the OT with the new as well as historical references and the original wording in Greek. Most modern Bible's have a guide to help with difficult wording or understanding of the wording. I mean we have been studying it for centuries, we have learned a thing or two, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If you can't judge them, how are you to decide to bar the way in to the church?
    I think we are operating under a misconception here. No one is barred initially, unless they are obviously not interested in redemption. Anyone can walk into any church. To become a member or be welcomed back is a different story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And all I'm saying is that the Bible is a flawed book, filled with lies, and non-truths.
    Thats fine if you are not a Christian. If you are a Christian, the Bible is clear on what you have to do to be one and remain in God's good graces. Nothing wrong with either view as it is subjective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Thats fine if you are not a Christian. If you are a Christian, the Bible is clear on what you have to do to be one and remain in God's good graces. Nothing wrong with either view as it is subjective.
    I am a Christian but I don't believe in everything in the Bible. To do so is just not possible for me.

    And that has nothing to do with being gay, it has everything to do with knowing how it was written, and the content of some of it's passages.
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I am a Christian but I don't believe in everything in the Bible. To do so is just not possible for me.
    Heh a few years ago I would have said that makes you a bad Christian. Now I don't know. It's between you and God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And that has nothing to do with being gay, it has everything to do with knowing how it was written, and the content of some of it's passages.
    I know most of it and have studied it a great deal in it's original languages as well. Although I needed much help for that.

    I am not sure what being gay has to do with anything I said to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    We do have such a lens. It's called cross referencing the OT with the new as well as historical references and the original wording in Greek. Most modern Bible's have a guide to help with difficult wording or understanding of the wording. I mean we have been studying it for centuries, we have learned a thing or two, lol.
    Except that Jesus came to replace the covenant and the law, so why are we cross-referencing anything against the Old Testament? Why do Christians not follow the New Testament strictly?

    That aside, how is one man's re-interpretation of something as clear as "destruction of the flesh" any better than another man's re-interpretation? Who has the divine inspiration and who has it wrong? If we can't even figure that out, how do we figure out who is or is not allowed into a church?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    I think we are operating under a misconception here. No one is barred initially, unless they are obviously not interested in redemption. Anyone can walk into any church. To become a member or be welcomed back is a different story.
    This is getting awfully confusing. What Jesus said and did always seemed so much simpler than this.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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