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Thread: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

  1. #151
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    You tried to rephrase what you said, I was just recalling your words to you.
    No I did not. I said exactly the same thing earlier. You were trying to play a game. Either way it means exactly the same thing and has nothing to do with what you accused me of saying. Again nice try.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    In order: Jesus, on the subject of the last judgement, not on turning away unrepentant sinners; John; Paul. None of those are an answer to my question, especially seeing as how Jesus never said two of them and the first was dealing with a whole other subject.
    Well how about direct quotes?

    1 Corinthians 5:11-13 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

    2 John 1:10-11 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.


    You can pretend I did not answer, but we know the truth.

    They are an exact answer to your question, your denial is nothing but a smoke screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    But yes, by all means, forget all about the question if it pleases you.
    I have not only shown that you are wrong. I have answered every question put to me. Another lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    No I did not. I said exactly the same thing earlier. You were trying to play a game. Either way it means exactly the same thing and has nothing to do with what you accused me of saying. Again nice try.
    No, it doesn't mean the same thing, and you have yet to show me where Jesus told you to turn away from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Well how about direct quotes?
    You mean direct quotes that weren't spoken by Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    You can pretend I did not answer, but we know the truth.

    They are an exact answer to your question, your denial is nothing but a smoke screen.
    I have asked you for the words of Jesus on the subject. You have failed to provide them.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #153
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, it doesn't mean the same thing, and you have yet to show me where Jesus told you to turn away from them.
    Yes it does, I said it. I think I known what I said better than you as you can't even keep up with your own comments.

    Ummmm... John was an apostle that traveled with Jesus, and knew him. He said it as did Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    You mean direct quotes that weren't spoken by Jesus?
    Only buy a guy that saw him and talked to him and another that traveled with him. But hey, what do they know?

    So in other words you really got nothing and are trying to save face... Nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I have asked you for the words of Jesus on the subject. You have failed to provide them.
    Because Jesus, did not mention allot of things. His apostles did.

    Matthew 28:16-20 16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    But heck what do they know?

    Jesus did not mention pedophilia, but we still know it's bad. That whole "well Jesus didn't say it" smack is just that.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 07-28-13 at 03:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #154
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Ummmm... John was an apostle that traveled with Jesus, and knew him. He said it as did Paul.



    Only buy a guy that saw him and talked to him and another that traveled with him. But hey, what do they know?

    So in other words you really got nothing and are trying to save face... Nice.



    Because Jesus, did not mention allot of things. His apostles did.
    Look, I asked you a simple, straightforward question. It isn't my fault if you can't answer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Matthew 28:16-20 16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
    Yet another quote which doesn't answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Jesus did not mention pedophilia, but we still know it's bad. That whole "well Jesus didn't say it" smack is just that.
    Yeah, and speeding, and drunk driving, and a whole lot of other things. This is different. Jesus went looking for the lost so he could bring them back to the fold, while you're self-righteously trying to justify turning the lost away at the door. It is your belief that contradicts not only Jesus' teachings but his very actions. It is you who are trying to save face.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Look, I asked you a simple, straightforward question. It isn't my fault if you can't answer it.

    Yet another quote which doesn't answer the question.
    No. You are just avoiding the answer because you don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Yeah, and speeding, and drunk driving, and a whole lot of other things. This is different. Jesus went looking for the lost so he could bring them back to the fold, while you're self-righteously trying to justify turning the lost away at the door. It is your belief that contradicts not only Jesus' teachings but his very actions. It is you who are trying to save face.
    Again you are confusing a sinner to an unrepentant sinner. Do I need to get out a dictionary? Because so far your whole argument is not much more than an uneducated guess based on a novice understanding of scripture. Jesus did not tell the adulterer he saved to go forth and sin some more. He said "go forth and sin no more." If you continue to do the same thing in complete and utter disregard for God's law after being shown multiple times it is a sin. Then you have shown you don't believe in Christ or his teaching, and would rather be of this world. End of story.

    You could not even figure out that the quote just posted had nothing to do with your question and was to show the authority given to the apostles.

    PS When we examine the Biblical account, we find Jesus associating with converts and seekers. We certainly do not see Him “hanging out” in taverns with unrepentant sinners. You are basically trying to use the same definition of sinner as the pharisees used.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 07-28-13 at 04:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    No. You are just avoiding the answer because you don't like it.
    If that's what it takes for you to live with the fact that you can't answer the question, fine, whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Again you are confusing a sinner to an unrepentant sinner. Do I need to get out a dictionary? Because so far your whole argument is not much more than an uneducated guess based on a novice understanding of scripture. Jesus did not tell the adulterer he saved to go forth and sin some more. He said "go forth and sin no more." If you continue to do the same thing in complete and utter disregard for God's after being shown multiple times it is a sin. Then you have shown you don't believe in Christ or his teaching, and would rather be of this world. End of story.
    With each of the lost sinners: he went to them, spoke to them, moved their hearts, and admonished them to give up their sin. If that's the length that the son of god will go to, what on earth makes you think it's Christian to turn away the lost sinner when they come to a church? How can you possibly draw the conclusion that that's acceptable in the face of Jesus' example? For that matter, how is the sinner to be moved to repentance when those who have been saved are turning their backs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    You could not even figure out that the quote just posted had nothing to do with your question and was to show the authority given to the apostles.
    I stopped as soon as I saw the source of the quote because it wasn't Jesus talking. That was all I needed to know, since my question involved Jesus, not his followers.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    If that's what it takes for you to live with the fact that you can't answer the question, fine, whatever.
    I did answer it. Jesus said nothing about it. His apostles did who he gave authority to.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    With each of the lost sinners: he went to them, spoke to them, moved their hearts, and admonished them to give up their sin. If that's the length that the son of god will go to, what on earth makes you think it's Christian to turn away the lost sinner when they come to a church? How can you possibly draw the conclusion that that's acceptable in the face of Jesus' example? For that matter, how is the sinner to be moved to repentance when those who have been saved are turning their backs?
    In every case they were seeking him out or already his follower. The one's who were not Christians, notice they came for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I stopped as soon as I saw the source of the quote because it wasn't Jesus talking. That was all I needed to know, since my question involved Jesus, not his followers.
    So in other words you know as little about Jesus as you do of the Bible, as that was the words of Christ. It was Jesus talking.

    I think after that kind of snafu, you need to just quit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    I did answer it. Jesus said nothing about it.
    Finally. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    In every case they were seeking him out or already his follower.
    Absolutely not. The adulteress who was about to be stoned to death didn't seek him out. She couldn't seek him out, she was brought to him. The tax collector climbed into a tree to get a look at Jesus, and Jesus called him down and invited himself over to the collector's house. That aside, Jesus didn't stay in one place and wait for others to come to him, he went forth to meet people, to expose them to him and his teachings. It seems like the least that someone following his example could do would be to keep the church door open, figuratively speaking of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    So in other words you know as little about Jesus as you do of the Bible, as that was the words of Christ. It was Jesus talking.

    I think after that kind of snafu, you need to just quit.
    I will freely admit that I was agitated enough that I posted before I thought, and on that occasion I was wrong. You had posted so many quotes that either had nothing to do with what Jesus said or had nothing to do with the question I asked or both that I forgot the reason I had dismissed that particular one. I dismissed it because it had nothing to do with the question I asked. Thanks for bringing my attention to that mistake so I could correct it.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Finally. Thank you.
    Why did you cut this out? His apostles did who he gave authority to. To save yourself embarrassment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Absolutely not. The adulteress who was about to be stoned to death didn't seek him out. She couldn't seek him out, she was brought to him. The tax collector climbed into a tree to get a look at Jesus, and Jesus called him down and invited himself over to the collector's house. That aside, Jesus didn't stay in one place and wait for others to come to him, he went forth to meet people, to expose them to him and his teachings. It seems like the least that someone following his example could do would be to keep the church door open, figuratively speaking of course.
    Notice what I highlighted. They came to him. He was not "hanging out" with anyone who was unrepentant. He was hanging out with people seeking him out and converts. Not in the bar with unrepentant sinners etc.

    Again you are still confusing sinners seeking salvation to unrepentant sinners. Get your definitions correct.

    If someone came in and wanted to become a Christian, no problem no matter what they did before. If they come in and want to keep doing the same sin? Sorry, can't have that. The point is to accept Christ and "sin no more" not to accept Christ and keep on sinning. This shows you do not accept God's word, period. Now we all sin, this is not the issue. We all can be forgiven, this again is not the issue. How many times can you commit the same sin over and over and be repentant?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I will freely admit that I was agitated enough that I posted before I thought, and on that occasion I was wrong. You had posted so many quotes that either had nothing to do with what Jesus said or had nothing to do with the question I asked or both that I forgot the reason I had dismissed that particular one. I dismissed it because it had nothing to do with the question I asked. Thanks for bringing my attention to that mistake so I could correct it.
    Every quote I posted had everything to do with your question. You do not want to accept the authority given to apostles etc. The fact of the matter is you don't know. You want to try and tell Christians to only accept part of the Bible as your limited view see's it rather as the complete book it is.

    Here is the funniest part. Jesus wrote not one single word in the Bible, not one. So you are willing to trust the Apostles to write down what he said, but nothing else. Yes that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Why did you cut this out? His apostles did who he gave authority to. To save yourself embarrassment?
    No, because it didn't answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Notice what I highlighted. They came to him. He was not "hanging out" with anyone who was unrepentant. He was hanging out with people seeking him out and converts. Not in the bar with unrepentant sinners etc.
    You keep ignoring that Jesus was the son of god himself, who healed the sick and called a dead man forth from his tomb. I imagine that such a fellow was pretty persuasive, hence the converts. We, on the other hand:

    1) Are but poor facsimiles, so we can't be expected to be as persuasive
    2) We do not know the future, so we don't know who might at some point in the future repent
    3) We can not see into the hearts of men, so an unrepentant sinner looks much the same as one who would like to repent but thinks they're beyond salvage.

    As such, the closest we could follow his example is to leave the door open and serve as a good example to all. You can't be that example if you turn those who most need your example away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Every quote I posted had everything to do with your question.
    No, it didn't. I asked a specific question and you failed time after time to answer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Here is the funniest part. Jesus wrote not one single word in the Bible, not one. So you are willing to trust the Apostles to write down what he said, but nothing else. Yes that makes sense.
    No, but I'm speaking to and about people who did trust the Apostles to write down what he said, so for the sake of the discussion I've assumed that they got it right.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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