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Thread: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

  1. #131
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I hope he enjoys his eternal suffering that is so painful we can't imagine it on earth. Hell is no joke.

    God judges sin, homosexuality isn't the only sin out there. People that wrongfully divorce, commit adultery, lust, and a myriad of other forms of sexual sin will also be judged for it. Truth of the matter is that we've all sinned and unless we repent we will have to be judged for it which means to be sent to hell for eternity. Desmond Tutu is ignorant and has no idea the level of suffering that awaits unless they repent.
    Wow, this is a real "Christian" attitude. Hoping people go to hell. This is some Scribes and Pharisees **** right here.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    If god is a bigot, creates people gay, and then punishes them for being the way he made them, then god is an evil sadist and the universe is an awful place. If god creates people, creates them flawed, and then punishes them for being flawed, then god is an evil sadist and the universe is an awful place. If god knows everything, and sets up tests for us, then he already knows whether or not we will pass, and has essentially decided already what will happen, because he creates us and creates us a certain way, and then punishes us for failing tests that he designed us to fail and already knew whether or not we would fail before decided to test us, then god is an evil sadist and the universe is an awful place.

    An omniscient creator who judges and punishes us for being the way he made us means that there is absolutely no change for free will. At all. None. Zilch. The entire notion of "sin" and judgment is inherently flawed and unworthy of being the basis for any discussions of morality. Causing needless pain and suffering in people is immoral. Discriminating against and hurting gays because of... whatever... is wrong. End of discussion. No one should give a crap what some ancient book says about it. Especially one that employs such obvious logical fallacies and contradictions to justify its backwards and ignorant positions.
    Yeah, this is one of the reasons I left the Church (even though I was Episcopal and they're pretty much "no biggie" about everything). It makes zero logical sense to create people in a way that displeases you and then let them go to Hell. It's just completely nonsensical and cruel, at that.

  3. #133
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Here is another scenario. God creates people and people choose to be gay and choose to reject god. Some will repent and all will be judged by God. Including you Paschendale.
    People don't choose to be gay though so your scenario can't happen.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    I can't seem to find a link to the details of the bishop's remarks, but let me say that I think his position is likely a smidge more complex than is being made out here.

    Desmond Tutu's remarks need to be seen through the lens of his fight against apartheid and the injustice black people suffered from decades of South African law. I would guess that Tutu's eyes are not focused solely on marriage rights, but on worldwide discrimination including the death penalty for homosexuality in some places.

    In principle I agree with the statements he has been quoted with that have been made widely available. If, however, he approves of homosexuality (which is different from merely not being homophobic), my stance would differ from his. But again, he has seen the depths of injustice inflicted on a powerless minority, so I am willing to give him some latitude for extending his feelings toward genuine persecution of homosexuals.
    I'm fairly certain that he believes homosexuality is a sin. When the Anglican Communion recently went through the controversy of electing gay bishops, he said that he was fine with gay bishops and priests, but that he thought they - unlike straight ones - should remain celibate. So I doubt his comment is all, "Yeah! Gay people go have sex! It's awesome!" I think he's just more upset with how gay people are treated in South Africa and other places in the world where they are beaten, denigrated and otherwise harmed by certain populations. I don't know his stance on marriage, but it wouldn't be out the realm of possibility that while he's personally against it, he's okay with other people having the freedom to do it much in the way people have the freedom to commit other acts perceived as sinful.

  5. #135
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    And not believe.




    "Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."~ anon
    nothing is only too change your mind.

    your free to believe as you will.

    enjoy life.

  6. #136
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Here is another scenario. God creates people and people choose to be gay and choose to reject god. Some will repent and all will be judged by God. Including you Paschendale.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    People don't choose to be gay though so your scenario can't happen.
    Let's start with this as a rebuttal and go from there. Nobody chooses their sexual orientation. Some people experiment, but that's just to find out what they like, as in, what orientation they already have. And some people try to bury their existing orientation (all those ex gays) to cave to societal pressure. But both of those situations require an underlying sexuality to exist.

    Now let's discuss the idiocy of "rejecting god". No one in their right mind would think that this god nonsense was real and then intentionally ignore it. There's torture and pain involved. How well do you think Germans ignored the Gestapo in 1938? The situation that your god sets up is even worse. There is no escape, at all, even in your mind. No defiance is possible. No freedom to choose for yourself, no liberty, just slavery. No one "rejects" god. We just realize how nonsensical the whole thing is and see that it cannot possibly be real.

    I have literally zero fear of being judged by a god. Least of all on the issue of whether or not I happened to pray to that particular god. The whole proposition is complete bunk. But what an astoundingly sadistic and cruel place the universe would be if it were true.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    We are not Jesus. We try to emulate.

    Well, you sure do a piss poor job when it comes to your campaign of persecution against gay people because Jesus never said a word about homosexuality.

    If it were as important as all the pharisees are making it, wouldn't He have said so?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    There are no facts in the Bible. It is a work of fiction composed by men in which they express their intolerance,their misogyny, their homophobia,their violent thoughts.

    If you like reading books that are full of fear, hatred, and man's inhumanity to other men, it's a fine book for you.




    .

    The problem here is that people are referring to "the bible" without making any intelligent distinction of which bible (O.T. or N.T.), or between the actual treachings of Jesus and the more authoritarian and bureaucratic interpretations of Paul.

    IMO, the Pharisee Saul is the main problem here in that this persecuter of the true Christians co-opted the entire movement in order to undermine it. When these modern day thumpers use the bible in order to try to hurt others like they do, they invariably refer to the O.T. or to Saul the Pharisee. THey never refer to Jesus because they can't. Jesus was not all about hate.

    Jesus said to believe in HIM and to not follow those who purport to speak for God. Saul claimed that he spoke for God, and so what do all these modern day Pharisees do? THey follow Saul, they follow the preacher thumping his bible in the church, they follow each other and they follow anybody BUT Jesus.

    THere is all sorts of wonderful stuff in the bible, so it's not all quite like you make it. It's more a matter of intolerant people using the bible as a means to promote the hatred they feel by picking and choosing that which confirms their hatred. If they were to simply pick up the new testament, read what Jesus actually taught and follow suit, the last thing they would ever do is go out on a campign to persecute a small minority of people who cause no intrinsic harm by their actions.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    How can you heal someone who wants to remain sick? They can in turn infect others.
    You mean like many of the Christians on DP who want to remain sick in their poor treatment of people who disagree with them? You mean like Christians - including you - who hope that people go to Hell? I agree. That's toxic and it can infect others. Let's get rid of them and keep the gay guys.

  10. #140
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    Re: Desmond Tutu Would Prefer Hell Over A Homophobic Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Well, you sure do a piss poor job when it comes to your campaign of persecution against gay people because Jesus never said a word about homosexuality.
    No he did not. God however did as did Paul. Jesus did however define marriage as between one man and one woman. What does that tell you?

    I have never persecuted anyone for being gay. Of course saying someone's action is a sin I guess you define as persecution?

    Your blanket statements about Christians persecuting gay's is just that. Ascribing it to me is just a lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    If it were as important as all the pharisees are making it, wouldn't He have said so?
    He did. As I said before Jesus himself defined what marriage is in the eyes of God. Why would he have to say anything? If premarital sex is a sin, and 2 men or women cannot be married in the eyes of God, Why would he say anything else? Jesus was not known for making pointless statements.

    Paul however spoke at length as did the OT. So 1+1 still = 2.

    So your post boils down to an off topic rant and personal attack which serves little purpose.
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