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Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

Mr.Nick said:
Yes our government is secular, that doesn't mean individuals with civil liberties are forced to be secular - even if they are part of government...
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Who said they were? This is what? Strawman #626236? The situation is simple. You're more than free to engage in your religion as long as it doesn't seep its way into our government. Why is that so hard to understand?

Using your flawed logic and ignorance of civil liberties only an atheist is legally qualified to run and obtain pubic office.
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Who said? You just can't use your government position to proselytize and give preference to one religion over another. :shrug:

The First Amendment bans religion from becoming LAW - the First Amendment also protects an individuals right to religious freedom.
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And that includes from religion. :shrug:
 
Somerville said:
Since when are civil liberties suspended because one happens to be speaking against the actions of politicians?

from Tennessee
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Thats retarded.

The man sitting quietly has just as much right to do so than the council does to pray.

The other guy could have been creating disorder during the public speaking period or not following the rules....... I give them a break on that one.
 
Mr.Nick said:
No one is making you say a prayer and no one is forcing you to be at a meeting - you're only there of your own free will....

Get it?
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Government function, irrelevant whether I have to be there or not. Government is still giving preference to one religion over others.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Well then I suppose an individual is going to have to weigh what issue is more important to them. Being in the presence of prayer or arguing their boggle with the town board.

I've never heard of an "official prayer." I don't think prayers can be "official."
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Works both ways. You have to decide whether you want to bring your case before a board opening with banging of a gavel and do your praying privately, or abandon your project.

Official prayer is technically incorrect. I believe the term used was designated. I don't remember the title. But your point concerning official prayers, I agree. They should not be official.
 
Somerville said:
Or in other words, if I don't like christian prayers at a public meeting that might affect my life, I shouldn't bother to show up and voice my opposition. Is that what you are saying? Because it sure reads that way

Certainly looks like you would prefer that atheists, pagans and other non-christians not participate in public forums where laws and statutes are being discussed. Legal matters that could affect their lives. Nice way to get rid of your political opponents. Not quite what I think of as "Libertarian" philosophy
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You don't have a right to not deal with things you don't like.

Either suffer through something you don't like or don't show up. The world isn't ****ing Burger King... you can't always have it your way.
 
Hatuey said:
Who said they were? This is what? Strawman #626236? The situation is simple. You're more than free to engage in your religion as long as it doesn't seep its way into our government. Why is that so hard to understand?
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The Bill of Rights says otherwise - do you not understand what "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" ****ing means? are you stupid or do you just like to argue?



Who said? You just can't use your government position to proselytize and give preference to one religion over another. :shrug:
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The First Amendment ONCE AGAIN says otherwise ..



And that includes from religion. :shrug:
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No it doesn't - your protection lays under the first sentence of the First Amendment which reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" that's where your "right not to be offended" ends......

I love how you claim I'm making **** up but you're the one adding concepts and words to the First Amendment.
 
rocket88 said:
The prayer in question was at a government function and it was in regards to a specific religion. That is tantamount to government establishment of a religion.

As a Libertarian, I would think you'd find the freedom not to have to pray to a particular god to be pretty important.
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As a libertarian... I would think you'd recognize that nobody is being FORCED to pray.
 
rocket88 said:
A government endorsing a religion would be establishing a state religion. Therefore it fails even your reading of the Constitution.
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I fail to see how saying a prayer is establishing a state religion.
 
Mr.Nick said:
The Bill of Rights says otherwise
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WHERE? PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE RELIGION HAS A RIGHT TO SEEP INTO GOVERNMENT? Please do. You're essentially now arguing that we do have a right to create a theocracy. Which is NOT what you think it is.

The First Amendment ONCE AGAIN says otherwise ..

No it doesn't - your protection lays under the first sentence of the First Amendment which reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" that's where your "right not to be offended" ends......
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Have you read the first amendment? Any court decisions on it? Please show me ONE standing ruling saying you have the right to proselytize at a government function. Just one?
 
tererun said:
There is no freedom you are being denied. that is a complete and bold faced lie. If you wish to do something then you can leave the room. If you wish everyone else in the room alter their work so you can do something that is a load of BS and you are just trying to force your practices on everyone out of spite and hate. Take your spiteful fascism to another country that forces it's people to pray. You are completely free to pray on your own without forcing everyone else to stop what they are doing so you can pray. The whole world does not need to get put on hold because you wish it.
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If you're the only one that doesn't like it YOU can go outside.

Peoples's right don't get put on hold because you wish it.
 
Hatuey said:
WHERE? PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE RELIGION HAS A RIGHT TO SEEP INTO GOVERNMENT? Please do. You're essentially now arguing that we do have a right to create a theocracy. Which is NOT what you think it is.
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech

Do you NOT understand that government cannot LEGISLATE religion??? meaning government cant legally force you to adhere to a religion???

Do you not understand that government CANNOT PREVENT or PROHIBIT an individual from adhering to a religion???

Do NOT understand individuals have freedom of speech and expression and that prayer is covered under both those ideas?



Have you read the first amendment? Any court decisions on it? Please show me ONE standing ruling saying you have the right to proselytize at a government function. Just one?
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Of course I have read the First Amendment I've only posted it several times and just posted it again....

Progressive communist judges will always side against the constitution in favor of the atheists... That's one of the communist goals...

Communist Goals - 1963 Congressional Record

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
 
tererun said:
if i hired you to do a job and it is not praying then you are there to work. I would dock someone or fire them for playing a video game for entertainment, and I would dock you for playing with your imaginary friend for entertainment. You are at a job to work. You get provided breaks and you are free to do whatever you want on your time. It is amazing how lazy some people are that they would use their faith as some piss poor excuse to avoid work.
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You would fire someone for praying at work? It won't be long before you get fired yourself, for a serious lack of personell management skills.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech

Do you NOT understand that government cannot LEGISLATE religion??? meaning government cant legally force you to adhere to a religion???

Do you not understand that government CANNOT PREVENT or PROHIBIT an individual from adhering to a religion???

Do NOT understand individuals have freedom of speech and expression and that prayer is covered under both those ideas?





Of course I have read the First Amendment I've only posted it several times and just posted it again....

Progressive communist judges will always side against the constitution in favor of the atheists... That's one of the communist goals...

Communist Goals - 1963 Congressional Record

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
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Libbos hate the Constitution, bro.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech[/SIZE]

Do you NOT understand that government cannot LEGISLATE religion??? meaning government cant legally force you to adhere to a religion???

Do you not understand that government CANNOT PREVENT or PROHIBIT an individual from adhering to a religion???

Do NOT understand individuals have freedom of speech and expression and that prayer is covered under both those ideas?

Of course I have read the First Amendment I've only posted it several times and just posted it again....

Progressive communist judges will always side against the constitution in favor of the atheists... That's one of the communist goals...

Communist Goals - 1963 Congressional Record

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
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You seriously don't understand that the first amendment voids intrusion of religion into governments as well as separates government from enforcing a religion as it would violate the very notion of a first amendment? Seriously? Lol, spare me your McCarthyist blog. Freedom from religion is older than the 1960s.
 
apdst said:
If you're the only one that doesn't like it YOU can go outside.

Peoples's right don't get put on hold because you wish it.
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The problem here is that Christians in particular feel the need to pray in groups or out loud for some reason. There is no need to involve everyone in the room when you feel the need to pray. There is no need to say the words out loud. If one is truly comfortable with his religion, a silent prayer is more than satisfactory. The need to do it at a public gathering is just prideful show and an attempt to be heard for whatever asinine reason.
 
apdst said:
No surprise that don't see the difference. I wouls explain to you difference between making students pray and adults doing so on their own volition, but I know it would be a waste of time.
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As these adults are pushing their religious nonsense on a secular meeting. There is no difference. Both are based on one simple notion: Secular event. Your religion? Personal matter. Pray on your own and keep it outside of secular events. :shrug:
 
Mr.Nick said:
One could take either position however, I'm not petty like you so I wouldn't be one to complain over being docked 60 seconds of pay for a prayer. I suppose if that were to happen a person could make a big deal about it and claim their civil rights are being violated. I wouldn't personally make a big deal about it.

If I owned a business I wouldn't dock pay out of religious spite -- you probably would tho.
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It doesn't matter. Less you can demonstrate some amount of significant decline in productivity or quality, it's a null factor. No one is being forced to pay for prayer if an employee prays at work. There are far greater inefficiencies which dominate the work place than prayer and it's at worst a null factor. Though it could have positive effects by making for happier employees.

As for this case here, it also doesn't matter. They can have any prayer they want so long as they realize that as government they cannot act on laws of gods.
 
Knowledge=power said:
The problem here is that Christians in particular feel the need to pray in groups or out loud for some reason. There is no need to involve everyone in the room when you feel the need to pray. There is no need to say the words out loud. If one is truly comfortable with his religion, a silent prayer is more than satisfactory. The need to do it at a public gathering is just prideful show and an attempt to be heard for whatever asinine reason.
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That dang religious freedom! You must get rrally pissed Muslim have to throw a rug on the floor and roll all over it.

This is nothing but religionism.
 
Hatuey said:
As these adults are pushing their religious nonsense on a secular meeting. There is no difference. Both are based on one simple notion: Secular event. Your religion? Personal matter. Pray on your own and keep it outside of secular events. :shrug:
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To religionists, there's no difference, but in reality there's a huge difference.
 
apdst said:
To religionists, there's no difference, but in reality there's a huge difference.
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Religionists? Did you make that up? I think I noticed because I'm ejumacated.
 
Knowledge=power said:
The problem here is that Christians in particular feel the need to pray in groups or out loud for some reason. There is no need to involve everyone in the room when you feel the need to pray. There is no need to say the words out loud. If one is truly comfortable with his religion, a silent prayer is more than satisfactory. The need to do it at a public gathering is just prideful show and an attempt to be heard for whatever asinine reason.
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You can use this same argument against gays too. It's not a good argument. The rights and liberties of the individual must be upheld.
 
Ikari said:
You can use this same argument against gays too. It's not a good argument. The rights and liberties of the individual must be upheld.
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Gays invite you to pray? What is it gays are inviting you to engage in at a government function? This has been brought up before but I'm not sure what people are referring to. What are gays inviting everyone to at council meetings or government functions?
 
apdst said:
That dang religious freedom! You must get rrally pissed Muslim have to throw a rug on the floor and roll all over it.

This is nothing but religionism.
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So then, by your terms, a Muslim, Buddhist, Jain, Jew, or even an Atheist, could come into your church and open the sermon with a prayer from their religion?
 
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