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Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

Somerville said:
Or in other words, if I don't like christian prayers at a public meeting that might affect my life, I shouldn't bother to show up and voice my opposition. Is that what you are saying? Because it sure reads that way

Certainly looks like you would prefer that atheists, pagans and other non-christians not participate in public forums where laws and statutes are being discussed. Legal matters that could affect their lives. Nice way to get rid of your political opponents. Not quite what I think of as "Libertarian" philosophy
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That's exactly what I'm saying. If you're more concerned about being offended than you are with the substance of the meeting than your input on the topic shouldn't be valued anyways.

Or you could do something totally radical like show up to the meeting when the prayer is over.....

It's all up to you tho..... It's your freedom to attend or not to attend. People shouldn't drop their civil rights because you're opposed - people shouldn't cater to you..
 
Henrin said:
None of it is important. In none of the above examples are the students involved in her prayer.
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This is why you should read posts & understand them before replying:

If she's at an official school function; say teaching a class or a rallt. The students ARE involved in her prayer by their mere presence. That you don't think so is asinine.

I will give you a cookie if you can find it.
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First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Mr.Nick said:
I find your argument petty, tyrannical and intolerant.
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Good thing I don't give a rat's ass what you think. Want to pray, pray on your own time and own dime.
 
Hatuey said:
Who said it was? Strawman #1. This is why I specifically said: You DON'T have the right to spread your religion through a school function.



SCOTUS disagrees with your arm chair lawyerism:

Supreme Court Decision on Evolution & Creationism: Epperson v. Arkansas
Supreme Court Decision: McCollum v. Board of Education, School District 71
Abington School District v. Schempp & Murray v. Curlett (1963)
Supreme Court Decision - Torcaso v. Watkins
Court Decision - FFRF v. Rhea County Board of Edudcation



Official government functions don't provide that choice. :shrug:



You do. Do you have to listen to the Communist Manifesto at government meetings?
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If you don't believe in religion then there is nothing to spread. Besides, prayer is usually silent...

If you don't believe in UFO's or aliens and if someone brings the topic up, do you go running for the hills crying about how you have the right not to hear "alien talk?"

If you don't like apples and if someone pulls an apple out and starts eating it do you freak the **** out??

Why is it religion that freaks you out?? are you afraid that all of a sudden you will become and evangelical if you here the mere mention of prayer??

You're an extremely shallow person. Not to mention I bet you're all about tolerance considering how "liberal" you are.

So much for the tolerance aspect of progressive politics eh???
 
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Henrin said:
No cookie for you. There is a difference between the establishment of a religion and separation of church and state.
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Aww, I'm sorry - did 200 years of court cases basing themselves on the first to validate separation of S&C make a whole in your nonsense?
 
TheNextEra said:
Good thing I don't give a rat's ass what you think. Want to pray, pray on your own time and own dime.
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Let's complain about wasting a whole minute to pray.
 
Hatuey said:
Aww, I'm sorry - did 200 years of court cases basing themselves on the first to validate separation of S&C make a whole in your nonsense?
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*hole*

Nope.

It might be wise if you are going to be grammar Nazi to watch yourself for the rest of the thread.
 
Henrin said:
Let's complain about wasting a whole minute to pray.
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Again, my point stands. Want to pray, pray on your own time and own dime. They can do this before the meeting if they REALLY REALLY need to. No, it is about grandstanding and nothing more.

However, I will still say that is the state's and the voter's choice since it is the voter's dime. It shouldn't EVER be a federal issue.
 
TheNextEra said:
Good thing I don't give a rat's ass what you think. Want to pray, pray on your own time and own dime.
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If you were a real libertarian you would support the First Amendment....

Right now you're siding with a bunch of intolerant clowns that believe civil liberties are "limited" to weather or not an atheist is in the room.
 
Mr.Nick said:
If you don't believe in religion then there is nothing to spread. Besides, prayer is usually silent...
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Wait, have you ever heard a prayer? First of all, a prayer is just proselytizing. Second, they're anything but silent in the American context.

If you don't believe in UFO's or aliens and if someone brings to topic up, do you go running for the hills crying about how you have the right not to hear "alien talk?"
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You still don't realize that this is a government function do you?

If you don't like apples and if someone pulls and apple out and starts eating it do you freak the **** out??
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Hey! Hyperbole #5262 from you.

Why is it religion that freaks you out?? are you afraid that all of a sudden you will be come and evangelical if you here the mere mention of prayer??

You're an extremely shallow person. Not to mention I bet you're all about tolerance considering how "liberal" you are.

So much for the tolerance aspect of progressive politics eh???
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My tolerance of your religion stops where my civil liberties begin. If I'm at a government event, I don't want to hear that nonsense much less sit by as you preach and proselytize through prayer.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, my point stands. Want to pray, pray on your own time and own dime. They can do this before the meeting if they REALLY REALLY need to. No, it is about grandstanding and nothing more.

However, I will still say that is the state's and the voter's choice since it is the voter's dime. It shouldn't EVER be a federal issue.
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You're talking about something that takes a minute on average from start to finish and will not cause any sort of impact on the amount of work that they will get done that day. You might as well be crying about wasting money on an unused chair.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, my point stands. Want to pray, pray on your own time and own dime. They can do this before the meeting if they REALLY REALLY need to. No, it is about grandstanding and nothing more.

However, I will still say that is the state's and the voter's choice since it is the voter's dime. It shouldn't EVER be a federal issue.
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Who the hell are you to decide when people can or cannot pray? right now you're acting flippin tyrant - no better than Hitler or Stalin....
 
Henrin said:
*hole*

Nope.

It might be wise if you are going to be grammar Nazi to watch yourself for the rest of the thread.
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200 years of legal constitutional history backing up separation of C&S. Good thing you decided to bow out.
 
Hatuey said:
200 years of legal constitutional history backing up separation of C&S. Good thing you decided to bow out.
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Well, since it has no basis in the language written in the first amendment it just so happens I'm not wrong.
 
Hatuey said:
Wait, have you ever heard a prayer? First of all, a prayer is just proselytizing. Second, they're anything but silent in the American context.



You still don't realize that this is a government function do you?



Hey! Hyperbole #5262 from you.





My tolerance of your religion stops where my civil liberties begin. If I'm at a government event, I don't want to hear that nonsense much less sit by as you preach and proselytize through prayer.
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Do you not understand:

1.Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

2. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

It's not that hard to understand.

Furthermore don't tell me about prayer because it's blatantly obvious you know nothing about prayer... 99% of prayer is silent and you cant prove otherwise.

AGAIN you don't have a CIVIL LIBERTY NOT TO BE OFFENDED...

MY civil liberties DON'T END and NEITHER DO YOURS!
 
Henrin said:
Well, since it has no basis in the language written in the first amendment it just so happens I'm not wrong.
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Popular Basis of Political Authority: James Madison to Thomas Ritchie

"The legitimate meaning of the Instrument must be derived from the text itself; or if a key is to be sought elsewhere, it must be not in the opinions or intentions of the Body which planned & proposed the Constitution, but in the sense attached to it by the people in their respective State Conventions where it recd. all the authority which it possesses." - James Madison
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:shrug:
 
Mr.Nick said:
Do you not understand:

1.Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

2. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
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You obviously don't. As you don't realize that this applies to government endorsement of religion as well. Free exercise of religion doesn't extend to government functions.

It's not that hard to understand.

Furthermore don't tell me about prayer because it's blatantly obvious you know nothing about prayer... 99% of prayer is silent and you cant prove otherwise.

AGAIN you don't have a CIVIL LIBERTY NOT TO BE OFFENDED...

MY civil liberties DON'T END and NEITHER DO YOURS!
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Nonsense.
 
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
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Where is it law (where is the law) that says an individual must adhere to religion or partake in religious activity???

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
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Clearly these tyrannical intolerant atheists ARE prohibiting individuals from exercising their religion and they're using the judicial system (our government) to do it, which is ironic considering that is a double violation of the First Amendment...
 
Would a discrete Druid sacrifice of a chicken be acceptable as a preamble to a meeting?
 
Mr.Nick said:
Do you not understand:

1.Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

2. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

It's not that hard to understand.

Furthermore don't tell me about prayer because it's blatantly obvious you know nothing about prayer... 99% of prayer is silent and you cant prove otherwise.

AGAIN you don't have a CIVIL LIBERTY NOT TO BE OFFENDED...

MY civil liberties DON'T END and NEITHER DO YOURS!
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The prayer in question was at a government function and it was in regards to a specific religion. That is tantamount to government establishment of a religion.

As a Libertarian, I would think you'd find the freedom not to have to pray to a particular god to be pretty important.
 
Hatuey said:
You obviously don't. As you don't realize that this applies to government endorsement of religion as well. Free exercise of religion doesn't extend to government functions.



Nonsense.
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Sorry to explain to you that government CANNOT ENDORSE A RELIGION considering government is not a living being - it's a system.

Besides, even if government DID endorse a religion that would be perfectly fine just as long as they didn't pass laws that forbid individuals from partaking in other religions or no religion at all.
 
rocket88 said:
The prayer in question was at a government function and it was in regards to a specific religion. That is tantamount to government establishment of a religion.
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For goodness sakes, it is people practicing their faith.

As a Libertarian, I would think you'd find the freedom not to have to pray to a particular god to be pretty important.
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No one was forced to pray. The worst they had to deal with was tolerate a prayer.
 
humbolt said:
Would a discrete Druid sacrifice of a chicken be acceptable as a preamble to a meeting?
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Most of the people who are defending the prayer would probably have a fit if it were a prayer to Vishnu instead of Jesus.
 
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