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Thread: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    this is not saying that you cannt pray in a legislative building. This ruling states that prayer cannot be part of the official business of the legislature and on the record.
    OK...so they shouldn't write down that they prayed. Fine. Whatever. It's still a null factor, still not a big deal, still nothing to get your panties in a twist about.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    you wrote, "And God listens to ALL prayers, including ones that are given by groups." ... How do you know this?
    God knows and hears everything. I'm sure even you know that is what is said about Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    you keep it out of chambers because that's a secular space and I like the idea of separation of church and state ... I like the following ...
    No, its not secular. Secular is an idea, not a place.

    As for your quotes I'll only address the ones from the Founders as they're the only ones that matter as they are the ones that made the Constitution and the BoR's.

    [B] Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”
    That wall was talking about making it to where the government cannot make laws for or against any religion/s. The letter in which that phrase was taken from is to the Danbury Baptist church who were being persecuted at the time. They wanted clarification as to what the religion clause meant in the 1st Amendment. It was written to assure them that the government could not make any laws against them...or for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
    ― John Adams
    This is correct as they use parts from several forms of government to create the Constitution. This is just a fact of history and has nothing to do with the Seperation of Church and State arguement.

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
    ― James Madison
    Again, correct. In Europe at that time and farther back in History the Church often interfered with the State and convinced rulers to use the law to ban and persecute anyone that they considered pagans and heretics. The 1st Amendment by its very words of "Congress shall make no law" prevents that from happening. No where in the 1st Amendment does it state that certain people due to class or profession or whatever could not openly practice thier belief system. In fact it specifically prohibits the government from doing just that with the phrase "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

    In each of those quotes context is everything.
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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Please tell me WHY do these hicks insist on praying before a public gathering when the deity they claim to worship was rather specific in telling believers to not pray in public?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Please tell me WHY do these hicks insist on praying before a public gathering when the deity they claim to worship was rather specific in telling believers to not pray in public?
    No deity is specific about anything. All deities say whatever the believer whats it to say at the time.

    Why do people seem so shocked that theists sound off in public? And what business is it of yours if they do?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No deity is specific about anything. All deities say whatever the believer whats it to say at the time.

    Why do people seem so shocked that theists sound off in public? And what business is it of yours if they do?
    So you didn't see my post quoting Matthew 6:5-7?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    So you didn't see my post quoting Matthew 6:5-7?
    The Bible says a lot of things that are ignored, or changed, or "honored" in different ways. They ain't supposed to be wearing cloths of intermixed material either. What's your point? That the religious have been doing what the religious have been doing since the beginning of religion? What other big news you got? Sky is blue? Gravity is an attractive force between massive objects?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The Bible says a lot of things that are ignored, or changed, or "honored" in different ways. They ain't supposed to be wearing cloths of intermixed material either. What's your point? That the religious have been doing what the religious have been doing since the beginning of religion? What other big news you got? Sky is blue? Gravity is an attractive force between massive objects?
    Well -- yeah for most of what you post. I'm simply noting the sheer hypocrisy of the rednecks being so adamant about doing something they aren't supposed to do if they are true "Christians" Oh, and gravity is an attractive force between objects, not just massive objects. It's just that it's a whole lot easier to notice when you got at least one big object. Afterall, a marble is not what one might designate as massive but gravity does cause it to fall toward the earth's surface when dropped.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Well -- yeah for most of what you post. I'm simply noting the sheer hypocrisy of the rednecks being so adamant about doing something they aren't supposed to do if they are true "Christians"
    So....it's the same as it's always been. K.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Oh, and gravity is an attractive force between objects, not just massive objects.
    Incorrect. Massive object does not mean one of immense weight, but rather an object that has mass, positive mass.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post

    Yes.
    Prove it.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So **** the legal foundation of our country?
    No, that would mean I have negative feelings toward the legal foundation of our country, which I don't. I simply don't give a **** either way. It's not important to me, my priorities, or my worldview.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No ones personal freedom is being taken away... You can still pray...
    One day, the legislators were free to pray, the next day that freedom is somewhat restricted. You can argue the merits of putting restraints on religion all you want, but you insult my intelligence by trying to frame intervention and restriction as being something other than a removal of freedom.

    There are a lot of freedoms we don't have, some are for the better. I can't snort cocaine off a naked hooker's breasts at noon in the middle of Times Square while getting a blowjob from a 17 year old cheer captain. That's a restriction of my freedom, but it's for the better.

    Likewise, I can't take a dump on the White House lawn while reading the funny pages. Also a restriction of my freedom, but probably for the better.

    At least call it what it is and justify WHY a given restriction is beneficial, don't try to play it off like something it isn't.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    If they're not Catholic, I don't care what they agree to. And even then, personally, don't care, care about the right position of what the Magisterium says it is, because, well, that's what it is.

    I think people have this misconception about the 1st Amendment and Sep of C&S. For one, no single group is asking for accommodation by the government, the government is at all levels made up by the people. The people whose right it is to not have the government, that is, other people prohibit them from the free exercise of religion. Don't you see the very thing you are trying repress under on the grounds of the 1st Amendment is the very thing, for this very reason why it is protected under the 1st Amendment.
    Except no one is preventing them from praying. They can go on and do that if they want to, I have no objection whatsoever to that, and I would defend them vigorously. But not as an official prayer, starting the meeting. When they act in an official capacity, they represent all stakeholders, not just themselves and the people of their faith. People should always be free to pray, unless for the purpose of disruption or the like.

    Suppose a representative believed that an official prayer should last an hour. Would you support him under freedom of religion?
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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