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Thread: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No where in my post did I state what God wanted or thinks.

    And why keep it out of the council and legislative chambers? Because others might be offended? Pfft. No one has a right to not be offended.
    you wrote, "And God listens to ALL prayers, including ones that are given by groups." ... How do you know this?

    you keep it out of chambers because that's a secular space and I like the idea of separation of church and state ... I like the following ...

    Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”
    ― Thomas Jefferson

    “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
    ― John Adams

    “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
    ― James Madison

    “They knew that to put God in the constitution was to put man out. They knew that the recognition of a Deity would be seized upon by fanatics and zealots as a pretext for destroying the liberty of thought. They knew the terrible history of the church too well to place in her keeping or in the keeping of her God the sacred rights of man. They intended that all should have the right to worship or not to worship that our laws should make no distinction on account of creed. They intended to found and frame a government for man and for man alone. They wished to preserve the individuality of all to prevent the few from governing the many and the many from persecuting and destroying the few.”
    ― Robert G. Ingersoll

    “Those who would renegotiate the boundaries between church and state must therefore answer a difficult question: why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?”
    ― Sandra Day O'Connor

    “When the government puts its imprimatur on a particular religion it conveys a message of exclusion to all those who do not adhere to the favored beliefs. A government cannot be premised on the belief that all persons are created equal when it asserts that God prefers some.”
    ― Harry A. Blackmun

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well I was asking about the reasoning or need to pray publicly. That was what my question was about.

    As for making out in public...nobody is trying to force people not to pray out in public. They are forcing them to not pray before a commissioner meeting which generally isn't the place for conducting business generally viewed as private.
    Meh, it's a null factor. Religion hasn't been private....pretty much ever. It's been a domineering force in human history, civilization, and society. I don't know why all of a sudden it's something people should "keep to themselves" or keep at home or whatever nonsense. And end of the day if the commission meeting accomplishes its goals and works for the People and abides the laws of man; I don't care. I see no need to get worked up over null factors.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The legislators CHOOSE to pray, and now their freedom to make that choice has been removed.
    Yea... Well the founding documents of our country say otherwise.


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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    That's ridiculous. I am at the meeting to comment on civic issues and to hear what my govt is up to. You're saying I shouldn't be a good citizen? Instead, the govt will host a prayer and drive me away?

    Give it up, all of you prayer defenders. Prayers should not be part of a govt meeting, held on govt property, funded by taxpayers of all and none religions.

    Pray all you want. Don't make me hear it as the price of seeing my govt in action.
    If you'd get driven off by a prayer and not participate because you couldn't even sit still while people prattled nonsense before the start of the meeting....you probably shouldn't be involved in government. Intolerant people are how we end up with tyranny.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yea... Well the founding documents of our country say otherwise.
    They have been praying in our federal buildings and White House and Courts and Congress and States since the very beginning. They may make no law! So long as their rule is by the rights and liberties of the individual, they are free to do as they like. Prayer in our government is not new. Hell we put "One Nation Under God" into our Pledge of Allegiance in the 50's. So people had been doing it and talking of it well before then as well.

    It's a prayer, it's not a nuke, it's not a law, it's not force. Y'all need to chill out and stop overreacting to these things.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    The question that no one has asked:

    WHY are these country-types (they are always found in rural districts) so insistent upon exhibiting their specific religious beliefs at a public forum?

    Matthew 6:5-7
    5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

    6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yea... Well the founding documents of our country say otherwise.
    1. No they don't

    2. Even if they did, why would I give the least inkling of a **** what some old men with powdered wigs thought about the issue hundreds of years ago?

    It's a matter of personal freedom being taken away. That's wrong, I don't care if you're in Washington DC or in Istanbul, it's wrong.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Unless you consider the state being pro gay marriage. That's certainly an ideology, and is against many religions (as well as being against the religion portion of the first amendment of the Constitution).
    Being pro gay marriage is endorsing a religion?


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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They have been praying in our federal buildings and White House and Courts and Congress and States since the very beginning. They may make no law! So long as their rule is by the rights and liberties of the individual, they are free to do as they like. Prayer in our government is not new. Hell we put "One Nation Under God" into our Pledge of Allegiance in the 50's. So people had been doing it and talking of it well before then as well.

    It's a prayer, it's not a nuke, it's not a law, it's not force. Y'all need to chill out and stop overreacting to these things.
    this is not saying that you cannt pray in a legislative building. This ruling states that prayer cannot be part of the official business of the legislature and on the record.


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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    1. No they don't

    Yes.


    2. Even if they did, why would I give the least inkling of a **** what some old men with powdered wigs thought about the issue hundreds of years ago?
    So **** the legal foundation of our country?


    It's a matter of personal freedom being taken away. That's wrong, I don't care if you're in Washington DC or in Istanbul, it's wrong.
    No ones personal freedom is being taken away... You can still pray...


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