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Thread: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Your opinion about whether it is an error or not is irrelevant because it misses the point. Each sect prays differently, and some sects pray in ways that are unacceptable to other sects. No matter how the prayer is constructed, it will be unbiblical to some sects.

    The fact that you want to argue (oh, I am sorry, "correct" me) about the nature of such prayers is evidence in and of itself that there is a problem here.
    I'm sorry this isn't my opinion it is the position and teaching of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, you know the sect who uses the Hail Mary almost in the exclusive. Considering that it is made up of biblical verses I don't see how they(those other "sects") would be able to say it is "unbiblical".

    Is there a problem with me clarifying a misconception? If there is it is yours, not mine.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm sorry this isn't my opinion it is the position and teaching of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, you know the sect who uses the Hail Mary almost in the exclusive. Considering that it is made up of biblical verses I don't see how they(those other "sects") would be able to say it is "unbiblical".

    Is there a problem with me clarifying a misconception? If there is it is yours, not mine.
    They don't agree with you about the meaning of those verses. The fact that we are talking theology is the evidence of the problem, and the fact that you think you are "clearing things up" is all the evidence I need to make my point. It doesn't matter who is right about those verses and who is wrong, or who is right about the nature of addressing Mary and who s wrong. Under the laws of the US, we should not end up with the government having to involve itself in choosing in any manner whatsoever which single group's (or set of groups) theology it will accommodate.

    The fact that it was so incredibly easy to turn this discussion into a theological one is proof of the land mines that exist with tearing away at the wall of separation. So many claim that separation is not possible. Those same people had better hope they are wrong, because once all vestiges of the wall are gone we will see the real battles begin, and all of those battles will be theological.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    They don't agree with you about the meaning of those verses. The fact that we are talking theology is the evidence of the problem, and the fact that you think you are "clearing things up" is all the evidence I need to make my point. It doesn't matter who is right about those verses and who is wrong, or who is right about the nature of addressing Mary and who s wrong. Under the laws of the US, we should not end up with the government having to involve itself in choosing in any manner whatsoever which single group's (or set of groups) theology it will accommodate.

    The fact that it was so incredibly easy to turn this discussion into a theological one is proof of the land mines that exist with tearing away at the wall of separation. So many claim that separation is not possible. Those same people had better hope they are wrong, because once all vestiges of the wall are gone we will see the real battles begin, and all of those battles will be theological.

    If they're not Catholic, I don't care what they agree to. And even then, personally, don't care, care about the right position of what the Magisterium says it is, because, well, that's what it is.

    I think people have this misconception about the 1st Amendment and Sep of C&S. For one, no single group is asking for accommodation by the government, the government is at all levels made up by the people. The people whose right it is to not have the government, that is, other people prohibit them from the free exercise of religion. Don't you see the very thing you are trying repress under on the grounds of the 1st Amendment is the very thing, for this very reason why it is protected under the 1st Amendment.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What exactly about this is forcing you to take part?
    When you do it in a public meeting where everyone has to participate then you have to take part. It is not that the meeting is going on while the religious people go off and pray, everyone has to take part even if they are not going to pray. If you want to go off and pray and take all the other religious people to go pray that is perfectly fine. The meeting has nothing to do with prayer and it should not include prayer as part of it's minutes. They have a job to do and it is not about praying. They should do it on their time and not on our dime. I would be perfectly fine if all the religious people showed up 15 minutes early on their time to have a religious prayer before the meeting. They should do that, but not as a part of the meeting where everyone is part of it whether they want to be or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why should anyone care if you are inconvenienced by someone practicing their freedom?
    It is not their job. You are there to do something, and it is not to pray. If you want to pray at work then you should be a priest or get a job for the church. If you want to pray on your breaks, go right ahead. No one is stopping them from practicing their right to pray. That is an outlandish lie by you, and shame on you for thinking I would fall for that load of BS. No one is being prevented from freely practicing their religion on their time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Is that supposed to be a good reason to restrict their freedom?
    Work is not a time where we have declared you are free to act in any way you want to. You are representing something, and if you do not want to do that job you every right in the world to quit. If you have to pray and your job is in the way you can quit. This is not a gulag where you have to work. Also, no one is preventing them from praying right before the meeting. They can pray before they come in if it is important to them. They just cannot pray when they are doing work. Hell, even then they could ignore the proceedings and pray to themselves if they so desired. So you are lieing about things and you need to stop pretending these people have been banned from practicing their religion, which is not true in the slightest. They have every liberty to pray every moment of the day if they chose to. However, if they chose to be employed they have chosen to do a job which does not involve prayer. I have seen nothing that says for the rest of their free time they cannot pray until their hands are worn and bloody.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    When you do it in a public meeting where everyone has to participate then you have to take part. It is not that the meeting is going on while the religious people go off and pray, everyone has to take part even if they are not going to pray.
    If you are not forced to take part in the religious happenings taking place than you are just at the same location where they are occurring. Therefore, you are not forced into anything religious against your will and your argument is seemingly invalid.

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    Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    IMO, religion and government should be kept as far apart as possible.....Religion has been creeping into government for quite some time now...Congress, especially the House, seems to think that it is fine to create bills based on their religious beliefs... Prayer in government encourages this practice....
    And they dare wonder why they loose the moderates at election time.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If you are not forced to take part in the religious happenings taking place than you are just at the same location where they are occurring. Therefore, you are not forced into anything religious against your will and your argument is seemingly invalid.
    but when you do it as part of the meeting then everyone has to be there and take part. I want that part of my life, and I do not want to spend it sitting there waiting for you to pray. That is you and for your time. Show up early or stay late and pray. Do not put it on other people to do it because you add it to a public meeting. Yes, i have no problem with the courts kicking religion out of public meetings. They should, it is important, and it is a good thing to tell the religious to pray on their own time. State time is not god time.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If they'd read a passage from Islamic texts he'd flip his ****, of course.
    But you wouldn't.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings | The Raw Story

    A big win for civil liberties. All members should be treated equally and government bodies should not open sessions with a prayer. This is a win for a cornerstone on the Separation of Church and State.
    No it's a big loss for civil liberties.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    If praying before a council meeting is NOT LAW then members can pray if they want to. Prohibiting them from praying would violate the First Amendment....

    Is - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" too difficult to understand?

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    re: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    but when you do it as part of the meeting then everyone has to be there and take part. I want that part of my life, and I do not want to spend it sitting there waiting for you to pray. That is you and for your time. Show up early or stay late and pray. Do not put it on other people to do it because you add it to a public meeting. Yes, i have no problem with the courts kicking religion out of public meetings. They should, it is important, and it is a good thing to tell the religious to pray on their own time. State time is not god time.
    waaaahhhh! I already know all to well you don't want to sit at the same location as someone praying before everyone gets to work. Why should they have to show up early just so you don't have to be in the same room as someone praying? Get over it.

    Oh the humanity of having to deal with other people having a prayer. What has the world come to where people pray?

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